Luftwaffe DKiG winner...info needed!

[Dave B]

Hi all,

Does anybody have any information on a DKiG winner called Oberfeldwebel Friedrich M?ller? I can't seem to find him in the DKiG winners list, he won the DK on the 29.9.44.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Dave

[Guest Rick Research]

There's a bad reason why you can't find him:

He didn't exist.

Nobody that name, OR as "Fritz," that rank, or in the army either, anywhere near that date.

It's a forgery, I'm afraid.

Send it back wherever it came from.

Very odd brown paper shopping bag colored paper....

[Dave B]

There's a bad reason why you can't find him:

He didn't exist.

Nobody that name, OR as "Fritz," that rank, or in the army either, anywhere near that date.

It's a forgery, I'm afraid.

Send it back wherever it came from.

Very odd brown paper shopping bag colored paper....

Really!! ..are you sure Rick? The document I'm sure is correct, the weird look to it is because I photographed it in bad artificial light and in a plastic wallet.

Sig on doc..

[Dave B]

What about a Feldwebel/Oberfeldwebel Heinrich M?ller (DOB 1.5.16) Flughafenbetriebskompanie II./Zerst?rergeschwader 76? This is on a KVKII award doc dated 1.7.41 he was later part of III./Nachtjagdgeschwader 3 in 1945. Heinrich is supposedly Friedrich's brother.

[Gustavo]

"He didnt exist"

Rick, I would love to hear your arguments. Why are you certain no such NCO existed in the Luftwaffe?

Are you saying he didnt exist (if so how do you know) or that no one by that name was awarded the DKiG (if so how do you know)

Thanks

Edited April 15, 2008 by Gustavo

[Guest Rick Research]

The complete lists were published in the 1980s, in Germany by Horst Scheibert--himself a DKiG winner:

"Die Tr?ger des Deutschen Kreuzes in Gold--Das Heer," Podzun-Pallas Verlag 1985

"Die Tr?ger des Deutschen Kreuzes in Gold--Kriegsmarine-Luftwaffe-Waffen-SS und Des Deutschen Kreuzes in Silber--Heer-Kriegsmarine-Luftwaffe-Waffen-SS," Podzun-Pallas Verlag 1986

These were published BY winners of the German Cross in establishing an "Ordensgemeinschaft" like that of the Iron Cross Ritterkreuz winners and older Imperial high decorations.

Scheibert is the definitive source.

[Dave B]

I'll get hold of the DK doc and take some better photos/scans, I'm still convinced the doc is ok.

[Gordon Williamson]

I'm afraid absence from the published works is no real indicator that someone didn't get the DK. The most recent list is in the book "Das Deutsche Kreuz" by Patzwall/Scherzer and even here, between Vol 1 being published in 2001 and Vol 2 in 2007, an additional 200 recipients were added to the listing.

I know of several who despite absolute proof of the award, remained unlisted in the published works for many years.

[Gustavo]

I'm afraid absence from the published works is no real indicator that someone didn't get the DK. The most recent list is in the book "Das Deutsche Kreuz" by Patzwall/Scherzer and even here, between Vol 1 being published in 2001 and Vol 2 in 2007, an additional 200 recipients were added to the listing.

I know of several who despite absolute proof of the award, remained unlisted in the published works for many years.

That was also my understanding. Given the nature and history of German military records after WW2, dogmatism in these matters is not a good approach. Exceptions exist for almost everything