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MAJOR NEW FIND! - REICHSARBEITSDIENST DIENSTALTERSLISTEN 1938/1940

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The SS buckle may make sense if he also held honorary rank in the SS, right? He also has a party badge, so that would be a good indicator as far as source.

If you go back to the image of the officers with Hitler, one of them is clearly wearing a decorative buckle rather than the standard SA claw type. Could it also be an SS buckle?

Going out further on a limb, is it possible that this was just common practice in the RAD? To wear SS buckles? We need to look through more photographs...

~TS

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Hi Robert,

Top pic you have was eventually GenLt Waldemar Henrici, retired in 1929, was an ArbFhr from 34 to 39 and was an active GenLt until 1943.

Cheers

Elwyn

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In the color pix, man with Imperial Naval Wound Badge, that would make him Wilhelm Busse -- KtAdm zv

Cheers

Elwyn

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A recent catch. General-Arbeitsführer Max Prentzel (AG-13).

It looks like he's wearing the Pour le Mérite, but I cannot find his name in the list of recipients to confirm.

20horbd.jpg

2ebx11s.jpg

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I think what you have was PLM Carl v Wenckstern. Max Prentzel was not a PLM träger and wore glasses.

Cheers

Freiherr

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I think what you have was PLM Carl v Wenckstern. Max Prentzel was not a PLM träger and wore glasses.

Cheers

Freiherr

Thank very much you for your reply and the photo of Prentzel.

The name Prentzel is written (in German handwriting) in pencil on the reverse of the photo, thus leading me to the conclusion that he is depicted.

Now I have 2 questions:

Is there a picture of Carl von Wenckstern somewhere, to be shown in this forum?

Was Von Wenckstern the only PLM in the RAD, if not, who were the others?

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Here is v Wenckstern.

There were two other PLM träger. Viktor Bangert and Oskar Alexander Commichau. I have only seen a horribly blurry pic of Commichau before.

Cheers

Freiherr

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Thank you Freiherr for the additional information.

The vehicle pennant on the car, is indicating Arbeitsgau IV or IX. Carl von Wnckstern was Generalarbeitsführer of both.

Edited by Odulf

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For those of you with the Ernestine Rolls book---

ADD the RAD rank and position for Moritz Frhr v Gall to his EH3aX from Coburg entry.

Rosencrantz was probably one of the two officers (with no 1st names) who received an HOH3X, and presumably J?gerhuber was the Olt aD from IR 97 who, as "Jaegerhuber" also got an HOH3X.

The Hauptmann with the HOH3X was Walter Rosencrantz. Erich might be the other. Walter was born on 19 March 1888. Besides the HOH3X, he had the EK1&2 and the BMV4X.

As for Moritz Freiherr von Gall...

I know what you are thinking: our Siamese twin ribbon bars, separated by eBay---

post-160-1209327426.jpg

and I am thinking.... NOW we're going to FIND YOU!!!!!!

Well, our shared Super Hero is NOT in the above. I did find one WW2 Admiral (Busse), 1 WW2 General (Henrici) and a Pour le Merite winner (von Wenckstern), but not our overly decorated WW1 staff officer.

Yet....

Moritz Freiherr von Gall

born 10.01.1882; 1914 OLt im IR 160, kdrt. z. Kriegsakademie; Hptm. 08.10.14

EK2 (14.09.14)

EK1 (18.09.14)

HOH3X (06.01.18)

HT (13.11.14)

GSF3aX (21.03.18)

EH3aX (25.12.17)

BMV4X (03.03.16)

SA3aX (18.02.16)

WF3aX (28.12.16)

OFAK2 (04.07.16)

REKj3XKr (08.04.18)

ÖM3K (22.11.15)

TH (01.07.16)

:beer:

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WHAT????

He was right there all the time? On the first scans I posted?? Just five positions above Baron RECHENBERG ??????

 

How?

Where?

Why?

And where did you get the ÖM3K date from, Rick?????

Edited by webr55

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WHAT????

He was right there all the time? On the first scans I posted?? Just five positions above Baron RECHENBERG ??????

jumping.gifcheers.gifspeechless.gifspeechless.gifbanger.gifbeer.gif

How?

Where?

Why?

And where did you get the ÖM3K date from, Rick?????

It was pure luck. Freiherr von Gall had the good fortune to serve on a Bavarian staff. I happened across his Kriegsrangliste entry. One of my many projects of late has been digging up non-Bavarians hidden away in the Bavarian wartime rolls.

I don't know what his internet access is like, but I hope someone can let Rick know I found his guy.

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Again, my CONGRATULATIONS!!! 

I'm speechless. Thanks Dave.

Good to have those Bavarians who keep their archives in order.

Edited by webr55

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The Ehrenrangliste has Baron Gall as Major aD... which means he got the same rank in the RAD. No step up.

His last position in WW1 was on the General Staff of the High Command of Army Group Kiev.

In the RAD, he was "Meldeamtsleiter" of Meldeamt 268 (recruitment office) in Darmstadt.

Edited by webr55

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Moritz was the youngest son of General der Infanterie z.D. Karl Freiherr von Gall (1847-1926). Moritz had two older brothers who were officers: Karl Freiherr von Gall, born in 1877, was an Oberleutnant der Landwehr in 1914, promoted to Hauptmann 21 October 1914 while serving with the Hauptreserve Königsberg. Max Freiherr von Gall, born in 1879, was a Leutnant a.D. in 1914, promoted to Oberleutnant a.D. on 16 October 1914 and according to the Ehrenrangliste later a Hauptmann a.D. having served in RIR 224.

A first cousin once removed, Waldemar Freiherr von Gall, was too young for World War I but served in World War II, commanding Grenadier-Regiment 697 on the Russian Front (German Cross in Gold on 2 September 1943) and Grenadier-Regiment 957 during the Battle of the Bulge. He was promoted Oberst on 1 April 1943 and ended the war at that rank.

Another Freiherr von Gall, Sigfrid, who served in the Kriegsministerium, was only distantly related.

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Thanks Dave for adding new informations :jumping: . If only the others Archives were like Bavarian one :whistle:

Christophe

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Generalarbeitsführer Karl Simon, Arbeitsgau XIV.

Obviously his only decoration is the Gold Party Badge.

2ev6hyg.jpg

Edited by Odulf

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Two Generalarbeitsführer visiting the Westwall, but who are they? Interesting to note that one of these is wearing a knights cross over the collar of his overcoat.

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2 of the 3 PLMs can ruled out: Bangert (a picture taken at a younger age showed him to be very thin) and v Wenckstern. That leaves Commichau.

3 of the 4 RK KvKs can be ruled out: Wagner, Eisenbeck ( looks a little like him but Eisenbeck was in East Prussia) and Pfrogner. That leaves Wilhelm Schulze

RAD general in front was easy. That's Fritz Schinnerer, Gauführer of Gau XXXI specifically set up for Westwall.

Cheers

Freiherr

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Thank you very much Freiherr, much obliged!

I think it is Schulze, by comparison to photo in the book The War Merit Cross. He was Chef des Dienstamtes der Reichsführung der RAD.

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Wait... you have a picture of Schulze? Would you post it? We don't have it at the Axis History Forum.

Cheers

Freiherr

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I cannot publish the photo of Schulze, because it is in a book and there are copyrights.

Title: The War Merrit Cross

Authors: Gordon Williamson & Josef Charita

Publisher: R.James Bender Publishing

Year: 2008

ISBN: 1-932970-06-1

Schulze is depicted on pag 380, wearing the Army uniforum of Generaloberstabsveterinär.

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The Generaloberstabsveterinär was Curt Schulze. We have stacks of pics of him already. Your RAD man was definitely not Curt so it could be the never seen before Wilhelm Schulze.

Cheers

Freiherr

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The Generaloberstabsveterinär was Curt Schulze. We have stacks of pics of him already. Your RAD man was definitely not Curt so it could be the never seen before Wilhelm Schulze.

Cheers

Freiherr

That's an interesting thought! But, as Wilhelm Schulze received his RKKVK on 25-02-1944 that includes that the photo was taken after that date, but to my understanding the RAD cuffbands (as shown in the picture) were no longer used from about mid-1941.

That leaves only few options:

- The cuffbands remained in use until after Feb.44

- The person is likely to be another RAD-knightscross holder (Commichau perhaps, with the PLM?)

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Beggars can't be choosy.... this is the only pic of Commichau I have seen. He was the man seated second from the wall. Not your man, I wouldn't think.

BTW, here we see KaHa Frank's trophy wife and the skirt chaser Heydrich and his wife. Then 3rd couple were the Toussaints, 5th couple the v Treuenfelds.

Cheers

Freiherr

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