EK 1914 1914 Iron cross 1st class "Hansen"

[Stogieman]

Hi Daniel, thanks for bringing this detail forward!

[Tony J]

Today they manufacture fine jewelry and deal in fine silverware and timepieces. Apparently a new member of the family took over in 2005. That may be why some of the old stock items have been disposed of. Do I think the info that they are still in business hurts the Hansen EK's?

I've been giving this some thought lately. Was the maker's name more recently added to these EKs to provide a bit more 'panache' and thereby make them more desirable (saleable?). Seems to me that the 'M. Hansen' was stamped at a different time than the rest of the markings on the back. Looking at the EKs in the new found box the TMs look to be a bit out of register with the rest of the stampings. Some tilt up, some downward and all seem to be fairly brite. The thickness of the letters or the depth of the stamping seem to be different.

I am not implying that the marks are not Hansen's just curious about the timeframe of the application. Any thoughts?

Just wondering out loud.

Tony

[Daniel Murphy]

I had considered this when one was shown without the name, however on most I have seen the name stamps seem to have similar patina to the rest of the stamps on that particular piece. As an example look at the one that started this thread, The M.Hansen does not look any newer than the rest of the markings. Were they done in the same jig, no. M. Hansen was undoubtedly the manufacturer and those he sold at retail would have had his name on them. However if he also sold them to other retailers the name would be absent. I have a Godet made double hook EK 1. Every detail matches the Godet to a T, but it is only marked "800" because it was supplied to another retailer for sale. Is it a Godet? Yes. If you owned a "Walmart", would you want to sell something with a "Target" label on it? H*ll no! That is the reason we see private purchase EK's without the maker mark.

Dan Murphy

[Tony J]

Good point Dan.

Among other unmarked EKs I have a Godet screwback that is unmarked. Made for another retailer? Who knows.

I was just wondering about this as I have not seen these rare EKIs marked with the Hansen name before. Live, learn and wonder. That's what I find so enticing about collecting the Iron Cross.

Tony

[joe campbell]

without seeming off-track,

this is PRECISELY the advantage to

a website such as ours....

i am in awe of the thought processes

and knowledge i see here.

where did you have discussions like this

in the past? at the occasional show??

lucky enough to latch on to a mentor??

sometimes it's the information that blows

me away, and sometimes it's the process.

we return you now to your regularly scheduled

programming....

roscoe

[Daniel Murphy]

Joe,

Thanks for the kind words,

Tony,

There may be a very good reason why these are so rare. Since the firm was in Kiel, the major portion of their sales of these crosses (with the name) would be to naval officers or petty officers of the Imperial German Navy. A great many of these crosses may have ended up at the bottom of the North and Baltic seas along with their owners due to the naval engagements in those areas. The only other formations based in Kiel were the 1st Sea Battalion and the III Battalion of Infantry Regt. 85. Even with these units at the front, persons awarded the EK 1 could have ordered one by mail or picked up one while recovering from wounds at the Ersatz unit. The other interesting question is, were they the maker of the "H" EK2's. I see dozen of collectors comparing core details ........

Dan Murphy

Edited November 30, 2005 by Daniel Murphy

[Stogieman]

As an aside, did you folks see the incredible enameled pins/stick pins that Detlev offered last week as part of the Hansen Horde? The quality was astounding and there was even a group of US flag pins!!

[Tony J]

Dan,

Thanks for the further info on the units based in Kiel.

What would your opinion be about the scarcer unmarked Hansen EKIs like the one Marshall posted for me? I know the old saw about not placing much value in 'the story' about any medal that cannot be provenaced. The 'story' of my unmarked 'Hansen' EK that Marshall posted has been in my collection about twenty years. I'll have to look in my records but if memory serves me right it was a vet buy.

In the time I have been collecting EKs I have seen several other examples of this cross. They were all marked identically without the Hansen name. That is why I am very curious that at this time such a large hoard of marked examples appears on the market. I am still not sure if the name application is contemporary to the time of manufacture.

I will be gone til Sunday and will not be online til then. Gone hunting.

All the best,

Tony

[Mike K]

Hi,

I'm pretty sure that there is an "M. Hansen" marked example in Bowen's EK book - I'm certain that the "M. Hansen" marking is mentioned in his incomplete listing though. That puts the M. Hansen mark in the public domain since at least the mid 80s.

It was interesting to note that the some M. Hansen markings from the hoard were at different angles but this does not necessarily mean it was added at a different time, just that it was applied with a separate punch (not unknown - look at Poellath flight badge markings). Whether the absence of the "M. Hansen" specifically means it was made for a third party, or was simply not marked? Were 100% of items made for sale by any company marked? Probably not!

Regards

Mike K