Range markers, signal flags?

[coldstream]

Here is a photograph showing part of an infantry Battalion on the march which I have so far been unable to identify due to the quality of the image. From the cuff ranks of the Officers I would expect this to be early Great War period.

What puzzles me is what are the sticks carried by the file of Lance Corporals at the front of the column?

The remainder of the other ranks carry their rifles at the port arms whilst the L/Cpls have their's slung. The stick like objects are too long for swagger sticks and, I'm sure would not be carried along with rifles.

The L/Cpls do not appear to wear any signals qualification badges but some form of signal flag could be an option.

Another option could be some sort of range marking device for rifle fire but given the high standard of weapons training of the BEF I'm not sure this would be the case.

Any thoughts would be appreciated Gentlemen.

[coldstream]

A better view.

[leigh kitchen]

Parade Markers of some kind?

The signalers crossed flags badge could be worn, out of sight on the left cuff, but the actual signaling flags would be in pairs, so perhaps distributed 1 per man here for ease of carrying?

Marching out in front of a Company or a Battalion perhaps, where you'd expect to see the Band, Drums or Pioneers.

The officers are wearing 08 webbing, so perhaps they are marching to or from the range, with range flags.

Perhaps red range warning flags rather than distance marker flags.

At the moment I'm going for the range warning flags option.

Edited July 12, 2008 by leigh kitchen

[coldstream]

An excellent thought Leigh, thank you.

Another observation though is that its almost as if they have a special posistion in the order of march and I wonder if range flags would have given them that significance.

As with most photos there is nothing on the back to help......infuriating but makes for more dogged research!!!!!!!!!!!!

[leigh kitchen]

Another thought - how about identification flags for manouevres?

I still prefer the range flags options though.......

[Hugh]

I see sticks, but no flags. Is it possible that these are some form of the old pace sticks? If so, why would there be so many of them? (Just to put the cat amongst the pigeons)

Hugh

[leigh kitchen]

A fair point, tho' I think that I can see furled flags around the sticks - the sticks are'nt "calipers", so not pace sticks as I know them. Atre they flags, if soi what for, are they sticks, if so what for.

I used to be indecisive, but I'm going for range flags......or manouevre flags.........or.........

[leigh kitchen]

Another consideration, from instructions issued by CO of 12th Bn Royal Irish Regiment, WWI, pertaining to procedures & equipment carried in attack - marker flags to display when occupying enemy trenches:

11. Flags and discs ? Yellow flags with two vertical black stripes will be carried by each platoon, bombing parties and patrols. Discs will be carried by bombing parties to mark their positions. All officers and NCOs will carry three flares each if available. These flares will be used when the objectives are reached. They will be fired in a row at 3 or 4 paces apart, quarter minute between the firing of each flare.

( http://www.modoracle.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2213 )

Possibility that these men are on an exercise with above flags? I still favour range flags though.

[coldstream]

Excellent information as always Leigh, thank you very much.

[coldstream]

Here's another period photo of Great war troops on the march, this time the Grenadier Guards circa 1915.

These troops are carryring very roughly made flags which I am sure are range flags, infact I remember them being of the same pattern when I was on the ranges.

Very different in construction and quality to the first picture, what do you think Leigh? Then again being an ex Coldstreamer the rough quality and shoddiness of the flags could be because they are Grenadiers!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

[coldstream]

A close up.

[Tiger-pie]

Range markers are never so obvious because they can be used by the enemy to calculate the distance back to your posistion. A small post painted white on the side facing your position was sometimes used or steel barb wire holders, both being less obvious to enemy observers. Flags were also used to indicate when a trench (or section of trench) had been captured.

Might they be range flags for rifle practice?

Regards,

Johnsy

Edited July 20, 2008 by Tiger-pie

[leigh kitchen]

Yep, that's what we're talking about, red flags for use on the rifle range, the 12th RIR reference is to the flags used to mark positions when in the enemy trenches.

The Bill Brown's photo baffles me - a route march isn't the sort of thing Grenadiers would carry company colours on is it? So presumably range flags again?