Medal bar help please,Order of Michael the Brave,Order of St. Vladimir Order of Virtuti Militari & more

[gor]

I got very interesting unusual medal bar.Is it possible to identify who was the Person? Please, help with name of hero.

[gor]

more

[Carol I]

There is a list of the MV awards for WWI, but it contains several hundred names so... :unsure:

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Gents,

am I the only one who finds the arrangement of orders on this "Romanian" bar quite strange?

Surely he should have some other lower awards, even if related to WW1.

Romania X 2, France X 1, Poland X 1, Russia X 1

Possibly the Romanian Balkan Campaign Medal? or Romanian Cross of War, Romanian Victory Medal.

Opinions please.

Kevin in Deva

[Carol I]

am I the only one who finds the arrangement of orders on this "Romanian" bar quite strange?

Surely he should have some other lower awards, even if related to WW1.

Romania X 2, France X 1, Poland X 1, Russia X 1

Possibly the Romanian Balkan Campaign Medal? or Romanian Cross of War, Romanian Victory Medal.

Opinions please.

There is nothing wrong in principle with the arrangement. If he was a Romanian, then the Romanian orders should have precedence over awards from other countries. As for other awards, if he was not a career officer maybe he did not participate in earlier conflicts or he did not bother to mount the minor WWI-related awards. There are possible explanations, but I do not know if they are also real.

I was struck however by the style of mounting. I am sorry now that I did not take images of the medal bars in the National Military Museum for comparisons. Maybe if gor could provide us with some more detailed images of the awards we could see whether there is some matter of concern with respect to them.

[Kev in Deva]

There is nothing wrong in principle with the arrangement. If he was a Romanian, then the Romanian orders should have precedence over awards from other countries. As for other awards, if he was not a career officer maybe he did not participate in earlier conflicts or he did not bother to mount the minor WWI-related awards. There are possible explanations, but I do not know if they are also real.

I was struck however by the style of mounting. I am sorry now that I did not take images of the medal bars in the National Military Museum for comparisons. Maybe if gor could provide us with some more detailed images of the awards we could see whether there is some matter of concern with respect to them.

Please see:- http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=3127...t=0#entry294774

might be of some help.

Kevin in Deva :beer:

[Carol I]

Please see:- http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=3127...t=0#entry294774

might be of some help.

Thanks, Kevin. The mounting style is indeed different in gor's bar and the ones you posted.

Is there any suspicion regarding the foreign badges? The MV Order on gor's bar looks pretty much like one from the National Military Museum (see below).

[Ulsterman]

Doesn't this (top) bar date from @ 1919-1921?

Would that explain the absence of other campaign/commemorative medals?

[Carol I]

Doesn't this (top) bar date from @ 1919-1921?

Would that explain the absence of other campaign/commemorative medals?

The presence of the Polish award on the bar indicates that the bar was made after 1919, but the upper limit of the manufacture date is difficult to establish. Your hypothesis could be a way to set that date, but it still has to be corroborated with the dates when the Polish award was confererd to Romanian officers. Could a list of these dates be found anywhere?

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo gor,

can you provide a little information on where this bar was obtained from?

While the orders look to be original, I think they or possibly some have been added to the bar

from separately obtained items.

I do not like the way the ribbons have been placed on the bar, in fact,

they look nothing at all in the style which Romanian awards can be found.

the Romanian M.V. award seems to have been applied as an afterthought,

and I don't like the fact that there are some basic Romanian medals that should be found

mounted alongside the M.V. award and the Order of the Crown.

the French Medal hangs in a style I would normally associate with British awards.

Looking at the rear the Polish and Russian awards look like they are original to the bar,

as there is some uniformity in their mounting.

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

[leigh kitchen]

A pity that the VM is unnumbered, the identity may well have been ascertained if it was.........

[b737]

Hallo Gents,

am I the only one who finds the arrangement of orders on this "Romanian" bar quite strange?

Surely he should have some other lower awards, even if related to WW1.

Romania X 2, France X 1, Poland X 1, Russia X 1

Possibly the Romanian Balkan Campaign Medal? or Romanian Cross of War, Romanian Victory Medal.

Opinions please.

Kevin in Deva

Hi Kevin,

from my point of wiew the arrangement on this bar is more than OK! The romanian regulation sais that the foreign decorations must be placed in alphabetical order after the romanian ones - France,Poland,Russia...!

Two things at this bar are strange , the miniature ribbon for the romanian Danube Cross on the St Vladimir order and the officer grade collar from the Star of Romania on the Crown Order's ribbon!

The Danube Cross ribbon on The St Vladimir means maybe that this person has recived both orders during the bulgarian campaign from 1913 ! If he has recived the Danube Cross for the 1913 campaign, means also that one of his ancestors has participated and recived the Danube Cross during the 1877 war !

I think that this bar has belonged to a high ranked officer.

[Kev in Deva]

Hi Kevin,

from my point of wiew the arrangement on this bar is more than OK! The romanian regulation sais that the foreign decorations must be placed in alphabetical order after the romanian ones - France,Poland,Russia...!

Two things at this bar are strange , the miniature ribbon for the romanian Danube Cross on the St Vladimir order and the officer grade collar from the Star of Romania on the Crown Order's ribbon!

The Danube Cross ribbon on The St Vladimir means maybe that this person has recived both orders during the bulgarian campaign from 1913 ! If he has recived the Danube Cross for the 1913 campaign, means also that one of his ancestors has participated and recived the Danube Cross during the 1877 war !

I think that this bar has belonged to a high ranked officer.

Hallo b737

thanks for your comments, with regards the Romanian Crossing of the Danube Cross 1877, I am aware that an officer who had a father, who was an officer who received the Crossing of the Danube Cross in 1877 could receive the cross and it would be worn with the "TRADITE" Bar,

(I believe this tradition was carried on into pre W.W.2 times.)

If this is the bar awarded to a Romanian officer then he would surely be required,

to mount the appropriate sequence of medals on the bar, so I would expect the

1877 Cross with "TRADITE" bar, as well as the 1913 Campaign Medal

to be there as well, as any intermediate Commemorative medals, for example military service medals, etc..etc..

Can you also confirm if a Officer was awarded the "Mihai Viteza" Cross they also received the Order of the Star in some grade?

We must also consider the possibility that the mini ribbon is in fact a Russian mini ribbon, as I have never heard of ribbons being mixed and matched in the way you suggest.

I can not recall any country, State, etc..etc.. allowing an officer to pick and choose which orders he would prefer to wear

By

"the officer grade collar from the Star of Romania on the Crown Order's ribbon!"

I take you mean, we have to wonder why the Rosette, which belongs / indicates its from the Romanian Order of the Star, is being worn / attached to a Romanian Order of the Crown

(to explain, if members look closely they will see the blue in the Rosette is darker than the blue associated with the Romanian Military Virtue ribbon.)

Again this bar raises more questions than it answers.

Kevin in Deva

[Carol I]

Can you also confirm if a Officer was awarded the "Mihai Viteza" Cross they also received the Order of the Star in some grade?

The Order of the Star of Romania was not a requirement for the Order of Michael the Brave nor was it awarded automatically with the latter.

I take you mean, we have to wonder why the Rosette, which belongs / indicates its from the Romanian Order of the Star, is being worn / attached to a Romanian Order of the Crown

(to explain, if members look closely they will see the blue in the Rosette is darker than the blue associated with the Romanian Military Virtue ribbon.)

Not only the colour, but there are eight blue stripes, resulting from the folding of the ribbon of the Order of the Star of Romania with four blue stripes (two on each side). Had it been the ribbon of the Military Virtue Medal, there would have been only 4 stripes on the rosette.