Ribbon bars help please US

[Noor]

Hi,

Here is my first US ribbon bars what I picked up. Please let me know have I "read" them correctly, is there anything else what they indicate. Also pin system.... when they use those different systems, etc. Maybe someone can help me to the start... also every kind a links would be great help from where I can read and learn myself!

1. 2 place ribbon bar

1.1. Army Good Conduct Medal

1.2. European/African/Middle Eastern Campaign Medal with two bronze stars (each to indicate participation in a designated campaign?)

2. 2 place ribbon bar

1.2. American Defense Service Medal

2.2. Asiatic-Pacific Campaign medal with star

3. 2 place Vietnam War period ribbon bar

1.3. Vietnam Service Medal

2.3. Air Force Good Conduct Medal

[Noor]

4. 3 place ribbon bar

1.4. Army Good Conduct Medal

2.4. American Campaign Medal

3.4. Asiatic-Pacific Campaign medal, with star

[Noor]

5. 3 place ribbon bar

1.5. American Campaign Medal

2.5. Asiatic-Pacific Campaign medal, with two stars

3.5. Philippine Liberation Medal which was awarded by the Republic of the Philippines

Edited November 12, 2008 by Noor

[Noor]

6. 3 place ribbon bar

1.6. American Campaign Medal

2.6. Asiatic-Pacific Campaign medal

3.6. WW II Victory Medal

Edited November 12, 2008 by Noor

[Ed Maroli]

The long pins ae early WWII type. The cluchbacks are WWII to the present

~ED

[Noor]

7. 3 place ribbon bar

1.7. Army Good Conduct Medal

2.7. American Campaign Medal

3.7. Philippine Liberation Medal

Edited November 12, 2008 by Noor

[Noor]

Thanks Ed Maroli! :jumping:

[Ed Maroli]

Also #2 and #5 should have the American Campaign medal. This medal ribbon was often not worn since having either the Pacific or the European medal also meant having the Americam Campaign medal as well.

1 bronze star equals one campaign

1 silver star equals 5 bronze ones.

[Guest Rick Research]

3rd bar is an impossible pair-- could not have the U.S. Vietnam Campaign Medal without the U.S. National Defense Medal and the RSV Campaign Star. Last technically had a longer (if I remember correctly) time requirement than the American Vietnam Campaign, but I've never seen the required NDM/US VCM without one as a trio.

[Noor]

Thanks!

Rick, you think its made up? Can it be first row? :rolleyes:

[Guest Rick Research]

No: they were worn in this order (this is a locally produced bar with typical Vietnamese specific date device rather than the regulation "1960-")--

1) National Defense Service Medal

2) U.S. Vietnam Campaign Medal

3) RVN Campaign Star

The National Defense Medal comes and goes as an award, but is basically the award for passing through basic training in times of declared national emergency.

[Ulsterman]

This medal ribbon was often not worn since having either the Pacific or the European medal also meant having the American Campaign medal as well.

Are you sure of this?

There were length of stateside service times for this ribbon and there are a number of DD-214s I have seen as well as MANY town history biographies that do not indicate this.

The Officers Guide also clearly shows the geographic zones of service which merited each ribbon's award.

By the way Noor, most of these ribbons came out by mid war. The WW2 victory wasn't handed out until the latter part of 1945/early 1946 and thus, you can date the bar to that Winter, 1945+ time frame. Only enlisted troops got the good conduct medal. The first award in wartime only requires a years spotless conduct.

Edited November 13, 2008 by Ulsterman

[David S]

The RVN Service-AF GCM is not right as pointed out above

Were it the top bar, of others it would still be wrong, the NDSM would be between the two

Also #2 and #5 should have the American Campaign medal. This medal ribbon was often not worn since having either the Pacific or the European medal also meant having the Americam Campaign medal as well

Not necessarily, the American Campaign wasn't just handed out, criteria had to be met

From The Institute of Heraldry website http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Awards/A...mpaignMedal.htm

3. Criteria: a. The American Campaign Medal was awarded to personnel for service within the American Theater between 7 December 1941 and 2 March 1946 under any of the following conditions.

(1) On permanent assignment outside the continental limits of the United States.

(2) Permanently assigned as a member of a crew of a vessel sailing ocean waters for a period of 30 days or 60 nonconsecutive days.

(3) Permanently assigned as a member of an operating crew of an airplane actually making regular and frequent flights over ocean waters for a period of 30 days.

(4) Outside the continental limits of the United States in a passenger status or on temporary duty for 30 consecutive days or 60 days not consecutive.

(5) In active combat against the enemy and was awarded a combat decoration or furnished a certificate by the commanding general of a corps, higher unit, or independent force that he actually participated in combat.

(6) Within the continental limits of the United States for an aggregate period of one year.

b. The eastern boundary of the American Theater is from the North Pole, south along the 75th meridian west longitude to the 77th parallel north latitude, then southeast through Davis Strait to the intersection of the 40th parallel north latitude and the 35th meridian west longitude, then south along the meridian to the 10th parallel north latitude, then southeast to the intersection of the Equator and the 20th meridian west longitude, then south along the 20th meridian west longitude to the South Pole. The western boundary is from the North Pole, south along the 141st meridian west longitude to the east boundary of Alaska, then south and southeast along the Alaska boundary to the Pacific Ocean, then south along the 130th meridian to its intersection with the 30th parallel north latitude, then southeast to the intersection of the Equator and the 100th meridian west longitude to the South Pole. The American Theater included North America (excluding Alaska) and South America

.

[Ed Maroli]

Yes there are requirements for the American campaign medal.

For service in the American theater 7 Dec. 1941 to 2 March 1946.

On permanent assignment outside the Continental US.

Permanently assigned as a crew member of a vessel sailing ocean waters for 30 consecutive or 60 non-consecutive days.

Awarded a combat decoration

Service within US for an aggregate period of 1 year.

Yes it is true that not everyone recieved the medal but it was very liberally given out. A US group with out the American campaign medal is by far the exception.

Also WWII USN and USMC ribbons are taller than the army ones

[Ed_Haynes]

Also WWII USN and USMC ribbons are taller than the army ones

Pre-wear ones certainly were. By the end of the war they had pretty much shrunk to army sizes.

[Ed Maroli]

Pre-wear ones certainly were. By the end of the war they had pretty much shrunk to army sizes.

My grandfathers are the tall ribbon type,clutch back. USMC Mar. 44 - Apr.46

[Ed_Haynes]

My grandfathers are the tall ribbon type,clutch back. USMC Mar. 44 - Apr.46

My father's are narrow, pin-back, USNR 1942-46.

[Noor]

Thank you guys for your help!

What you think about this Vietnam period bar? I don't recognise some of those awards but will try to do my "homework" soon now. But I put the picture up advance.

[Ed_Haynes]

A Vietnam-era naval bar, but I'll let you do your research. Hate to spoil the fun.

[Noor]

Ok... here we go. Its my first quick homework:

1st row: Navy/Marine Corps Achievement Medal

2nd row: Navy/Marine Corps Presidential Unit Citation / Navy/Marine Corps Unit Commendation with bronze star / Navy/Marine Corps Meritorious Unit Commendation

3rd row: ????? / Navy Good Conduct Medal with three bronze stars (?) / National Defense Service Medal

4th row: Vietnam Service Medal with three bronze stars / Vietnam Gallantry Cross Unit Citation (?) / RVN Campaign Star

But I can't understand was the owner in the Navy or Marine....etc.... Just start to learn

Now start reading those awards sitations:

- owner was junior officer or enlisted personnel?

- Only 9th Marines and 26th Marines got Navy/Marine Corps Presidential Unit Citation???

-

Edited November 18, 2008 by Noor

[Ulsterman]

The Marine Corps has a different enlisted GC medal...ergo....navy @ 1978 I'd guess.

[David S]

navy @ 1978 I'd guess

Roughly

Probably a PO1 or 2

3rd row: ????? / Navy Good Conduct Medal with three bronze stars (?) / National Defense Service Medal

Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal (AFEM) http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Awards/A...ionaryMedal.htm

Each star on the Navy GCM represents 3 years

Edited November 18, 2008 by David S

[W McSwiggan]

HI,

I?d like to throw a reminder out for consideration vis-?-vis the American Campaign Ribbon issues under discussion.

To begin ? just because there were regulations governing the wear of ribbons ? they were not necessarily followed. The troops were not and in many cases, their leaders were not supremely knowledgeable in these matters ? most were not professionals and they had far larger fish to fry than ?Private Smedlap?s ribbon bar? which was likely only rarely worn. Many of the officers were ?90 day wonders?, the professional NCOs were very diluted considering the expansion from pre-war to 100 divisions for the Army alone.

Beyond that, while entitlements were documented ? the information was often late, unnoticed or fell on the indifferent ears of draftees being mustered out following the cessation of hostilities.

Case in point ? my father served with the US Army Air Force. He served in the US long enough to be entitled to the American Campaign Medal as well as the Asiatic for his service with radio intelligence in India. His discharge papers clearly show these two medals plus the Good Conduct and Victory Medals.

We discussed his ?stuff? once when I was a kid and less knowledgeable on these matters. He showed me his THREE medals ? Good Conduct, Victory & Asiatic. He stated that he was told on discharge that he was entitled to a fourth medal but never bothered to pick one up. I, as a kid fantasized that it was some ?super gong ? DSM or something?. After his passing, mom gave me his military things including his discharge papers, medals and the likes and there it was! Super gong = American Campaign! No matter ? he will always be a hero to me.

Finally ? entitlements often lag significantly ? campaign designations & credit, unit citations and the likes. To this I can attest from my own experience.

Long winded with apologies but ? bottom line ? just ?cause it ain?t right don?t conclude it ain?t real?

Edited November 18, 2008 by W McSwiggan

[Ed_Haynes]

Good work. The first on the third row is the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal, mounted out of order. Most likely a fairly senior naval NCO.

See: http://www.medals.lava.pl/us/uschk.htm

[Ulsterman]

Can't argue with what Ed said there-

However, 2.2 is a 1965+ era bar.

They did not make the paper label inserts until the late 1960s.

I know because I called the company and asked them about six months ago.

I was on a roll last Summer, heady with unlimited calling minutes on my new AT+T cell phone, trying to establish when the US military started using "ultra thin" ribbons. I spoke with a very nice elderly lady on her last week at work who'd been doing ribbons for over 40 years and started at the PX tailors as a Air Force wife at Landstuhl.

Ribbon trivia.

By the way, Philippines troops and the Wake and Midway garrisons did not get the American theater ribbon.

Neither did permanently stationed troops (mostly navy) in Australia and India. They may have been entitled to it, but I know this directly from the horses mouth (my monthly WW2 vets meeting at the Senior Center that i attend religiously.

I am the youngest guy there by five decades or so.

By the way, I reckon that about 30% of all US ribbons are out of order at any given time since the 1960s. Whenever I point out oop issues, most guys look at me like I am an overly fastidious twit, which I suppose I am.

Edited November 18, 2008 by Ulsterman