James Hoard Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 The Black Eagle Order military division was distinguished from the civil division for knights [and likely, officers] by the addition of crossed swords to the ribbon, not the badge. [illustrated in J. Jacob's Court Jewelers of the World.] There is a portrait of the Prince wearing the badge of the military division on the dust jacket of Heaton-Armstrong's book.Cpoyright I.B. Taurus. http://media.us.macmillan.com/jackets/500H/9781850437611.jpgHeaton-Armstrong also says that he reveived the Commander grade with 'crossed swords' when he left the prince's service.CheersJames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaim Qyteza Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Artan!!! Again, FANTASTIC PHOTO!! THANK YOU!! Do you know anything about the officer wearing the Black Eagle Order? Very few Albanians received the Order, according to Klietmann. This photo could reconfirm that Klietmann's tabulation of awards is not entirely correct. [His Ordens-Lexicon article was earlier known not to include the names of several Dutch individuals decorated by Wilhelm.] Heaton-Armstrong certainly suggests that Wilhelm awarded Black Eagle insignia, especially the medals, more freely than Klietmann states. Artan & James: The Black Eagle Order military division was distinguished from the civil division for knights [and likely, officers] by the addition of crossed swords to the ribbon, not the badge. [illustrated in J. Jacob's Court Jewelers of the World.] This officer may have received a civil division badge or the swords may have fallen off of the ribbon. Klietmann reports an award of just one commander with swords but does not describe the insignia. James----you are correct, concerning the stars Wilhelm wears being related to the powers interested in promoting Albanian independence. Austria-Hungary, Italy, Russia, France, Germany and the United Kingdom were the six powers guaranteeing Albanian independence and the Albanian state. Austria-Hungary and Italy were the 'most concerned' and actually supplied most resources [funds, arms, advisors, etc.] other than the Dutch officers serving in the Gendarmerie available to Wilhelm. Perhaps lack of space explains absence of his Legion of Honor and Red Eagle stars.Artan, again most sincere thanks for sharing your wonderful photo archive!! Absolutely terrific!! ! WONDERFUL!!!Dear Sir,The officer is major Meleq Frasheri. He was an officer of Ottoman Army, passed to the Albanian service after the independence of Albania in 1912. Passed to Wied after his arrived in Durres. Passed to the A-H Army in 1916, after the occupation of North Albania from the A-H. Pased to the new Governmental Albanian troops after the fall of the Empire in 1918. Killed in action during a revolt near Tirana on Mars 1922. I think as you, that Klietmann's tabulation of awards is not entirely correct, because I found in Albania some pieces (however not many) of Black Eagle Order.Attach another picture of a decorated person, in this case a civil one. I don?t resist your explosion of emotions viewing the photos.Regards,Artan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Schena Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Artan:I am in awe of the photos and information you have been bestowing upon this forum! If I may ask, have you considered writing a book? if so, I certainly would be first in line to buy it, as well as help in any way possible. Cheers,Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
922F Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Artan--Sincere Thanks Again!!!! Magnificant! WONDERFUL!!!James--The 6 Month Kingdom cover illustration is actually represents Heaton-Armstrong, according to the authors. I contacted them for an illustration of him wearing the BE to date withut success. That's why he's shown wearing a black fez-type hat and only the BE breast badge and accession medal. (Both hardly identifiable.) Again, this is not an actual photo but a heavily retouched illustration. Heaton-Armstrong is seen in several of the "Einzug des Fursten Wilhelm. von Albanien" and "Einzug des Furstenpaares von Albanien" postcard series pictures, usually to the prince?s right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaim Qyteza Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Artan--Sincere Thanks Again!!!! Magnificant! WONDERFUL!!!James--The 6 Month Kingdom cover illustration is actually represents Heaton-Armstrong, according to the authors. I contacted them for an illustration of him wearing the BE to date withut success. That's why he's shown wearing a black fez-type hat and only the BE breast badge and accession medal. (Both hardly identifiable.) Again, this is not an actual photo but a heavily retouched illustration. Heaton-Armstrong is seen in several of the "Einzug des Fursten Wilhelm. von Albanien" and "Einzug des Furstenpaares von Albanien" postcard series pictures, usually to the prince's right. Dear 922F (that strange name!!!)You are right. He is no the Prince Wied, but Heaton-Armstrong. Attached is a photo of Armstrong during his residence a Durres, before receiving the medals from the Prince's Auguste Hands.Regards,Artan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaim Qyteza Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Artan--Sincere Thanks Again!!!! Magnificant! WONDERFUL!!!James--The 6 Month Kingdom cover illustration is actually represents Heaton-Armstrong, according to the authors. I contacted them for an illustration of him wearing the BE to date withut success. That's why he's shown wearing a black fez-type hat and only the BE breast badge and accession medal. (Both hardly identifiable.) Again, this is not an actual photo but a heavily retouched illustration. Heaton-Armstrong is seen in several of the "Einzug des Fursten Wilhelm. von Albanien" and "Einzug des Furstenpaares von Albanien" postcard series pictures, usually to the prince's right. Dear 922F (that strange name!!!)You are right. He is no the Prince Wied, but Heaton-Armstrong. Attached is a photo of Armstrong during his residence a Durres, before receiving the medals from the Prince's Auguste Hands.Regards,Artan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
922F Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 (edited) Artan, THANK YOU FOR THIS PHOTO!! You have a treasure trove! I visited several places in Tirana (Skanderbeg Square Museum, old Palace, Ministry of Defence, etc) several years ago and found little useful information. Perhaps the Wied archives contain some information but so far it is impossible to visit them. Thank you again! Edited March 6, 2009 by 922F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaim Qyteza Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Artan, THANK YOU FOR THIS PHOTO!! You have a treasure trove! I visited several places in Tirana (Skanderbeg Square Museum, old Palace, Ministry of Defence, etc) several years ago and found little useful information. Perhaps the Wied archives contain some information but so far it is impossible to visit them. Thank you again! Dear Sir,I am still excited for the last found in Albania, here attached. I found it two days ago and is propriety of the san of the person named there. For your next trip in Albania call me before.Best regards.Artan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hoard Posted March 6, 2009 Author Share Posted March 6, 2009 Dear Sir,I am still excited for the last found in Albania, here attached. I found it two days ago and is propriety of the san of the person named there. For your next trip in Albania call me before.Best regards.ArtanArtan,This is very interesting indeed.Any details on this "Military Medal"? I have not heard of it before.Cheers,James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaim Qyteza Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Artan,This is very interesting indeed.Any details on this "Military Medal"? I have not heard of it before.Cheers,JamesDear James,This ?Medaille Militaire en Argent? is the Silver Medal of the Black Eagle Order (see attach). Note: The date of the document is "2.IX.1914", only a day before the departure of Prince Wied from Albania, on 03.09.1914. The awarded person, was the official translator of Prince in Albania and the decoration was as a last recognition of the Prince to his faithful collaborators.Regards,Artan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Schena Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Artan:I am speechless here! That is the very first award document I have ever seen or even heard of for any Wied era decoration, or heck, even a Zog era award! I echo 922F's "treasure trove" remarks - I have learned a lot from your posts and photos. Thank you very much for sharing!Cheers,Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hoard Posted March 7, 2009 Author Share Posted March 7, 2009 Dear James,This "Medaille Militaire en Argent" is the Silver Medal of the Black Eagle Order (see attach). Note: The date of the document is "2.IX.1914", only a day before the departure of Prince Wied from Albania, on 03.09.1914. The awarded person, was the official translator of Prince in Albania and the decoration was as a last recognition of the Prince to his faithful collaborators.Artan,Many thanks.Is your equation of the "Medaille Militaire en argent" with the Medal of the Order of the Black Eagle based on any actual hard evidence or is it a guess?It seems to me there is nothing in the award document to say that the award conferred has anything to do with the Black Eagle. So do you have any other document which confirms that they are the same?Also, isn't the picture a civil Black Eagle Medal?With good wishes,James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hoard Posted March 7, 2009 Author Share Posted March 7, 2009 Dear James,This "Medaille Militaire en Argent" is the Silver Medal of the Black Eagle Order (see attach). Note: The date of the document is "2.IX.1914", only a day before the departure of Prince Wied from Albania, on 03.09.1914. The awarded person, was the official translator of Prince in Albania and the decoration was as a last recognition of the Prince to his faithful collaborators.Artan,Many thanks.Is your equation of the "Medaille Militaire en argent" with the Medal of the Order of the Black Eagle based on any actual hard evidence or is it a guess?It seems to me there is nothing in the award document to say that the award conferred has anything to do with the Black Eagle. So do you have any other document which confirms that they are the same?Also, isn't the picture a civil Black Eagle Medal?With good wishes,James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaim Qyteza Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Artan,Many thanks.Is your equation of the "Medaille Militaire en argent" with the Medal of the Order of the Black Eagle based on any actual hard evidence or is it a guess?It seems to me there is nothing in the award document to say that the award conferred has anything to do with the Black Eagle. So do you have any other document which confirms that they are the same?Also, isn't the picture a civil Black Eagle Medal?With good wishes,JamesDear Sir,According to the son of the awarded, his father called his medal ?Bese dhe Bashkim?. You know that ?Bese dhe Bashkim? is the motto of the Black Eagle Order. I know also another document, that calls this medal so (see attach). I think that Kliartmann-Neubecker is wrong when writes that ?all the medals were accorded by Prince in emigration in 1918?. I have found in Albania, at least three bronze medals and one silver medal. Heaton-Armstrong also writes that Wilhelm awarded Black Eagle insignia, especially the medals.Regards,Artan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr General Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 A old scan of a Dutch Set. Worn by a member of the Dutch contingent, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaim Qyteza Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 A old scan of a Dutch Set. Worn by a member of the Dutch contingent,Meine Herr General,.Very interesant piece. Can you give as a better copy of this medal bar? I find in another Forum this one (see attach).Regards,Artan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr General Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Sorry, this is the only scan I have, The set belonged to Major Lucas Roelfsema Dutch Officerscross with number 30Mobilisation cross 1914-1918 Knight 4th class (officer) in the Order of the Black Eagle from Albania - 2-8-1914 4th class in the Pruissian Crown OrderKnight 2nd class in the White Falcon Order of Saxe-Weimer Medal of Prins William van Wied - 7-3-1914 See: http://www.onderscheidingenforum.nl/viewtopic.php?t=2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaim Qyteza Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Sorry, this is the only scan I have, The set belonged to Major Lucas Roelfsema Dutch Officerscross with number 30Mobilisation cross 1914-1918 Knight 4th class (officer) in the Order of the Black Eagle from Albania - 2-8-1914 4th class in the Pruissian Crown OrderKnight 2nd class in the White Falcon Order of Saxe-Weimer Medal of Prins William van Wied - 7-3-1914 Dear Sir,Thank you for posting the Forum www.onderscheidingenforum.nl. It was very interesting. I see there a very beautiful picture of the cushion with the medals of Col. Thomson. I attach here another cushion with the decorations of grand officer of the Black Eagle Order in a picture of a funeral on 1941 in Tirana. The other orders are Grand Cross of Skanderbeg Order and Grand Officer of an A-H Order. I am interested in any information, picture, etc. of the period of Prince Wied.Regards,ArtanSee: http://www.onderscheidingenforum.nl/viewtopic.php?t=2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hoard Posted March 7, 2009 Author Share Posted March 7, 2009 Dear Sir,According to the son of the awarded, his father called his medal "Bese dhe Bashkim". You know that "Bese dhe Bashkim" is the motto of the Black Eagle Order. I know also another document, that calls this medal so (see attach). Hello Artan,Again, many thanks for the interesting document. However, that document also does not actually equate or even mention the Black Eagle order or medals. It only mentions "fidelity/loyalty and unity". While this motto may be on the Black Eagle order it isn't conclusive evidence that the two decorations are the same or that the same motto may not have been used elsewhere.Is there any subtle difference in meaning between "bese e bashkim" and "bese dhe bashkim"With good wishes,James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaim Qyteza Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Hello Artan,Again, many thanks for the interesting document. However, that document also does not actually equate or even mention the Black Eagle order or medals. It only mentions "fidelity/loyalty and unity". While this motto may be on the Black Eagle order it isn't conclusive evidence that the two decorations are the same or that the same motto may not have been used elsewhere.Is there any subtle difference in meaning between "bese e bashkim" and "bese dhe bashkim"With good wishes,JamesDear James. BESE E BASHKIM is idem with BESE DHE BASHKIM. The albanian language use both of the forms ?E?, ?DHE?, ?EDHE? for the english ?AND?.Dear Sir, you are looking for Prussian precision in Albania of 1914 (!!!)The same Prince Wied, was not sure for his own title. Here attached two documents. On the first he call herself ?His Majesty the King? on the other ?His Highness the Prince? (!!!).You must be sure, that the ?Military Medal? is the same with ?Medal of the Black Eagle Order?, and with (in vulgus dictum) ?Bes? e Bashkim Medal?.Regards,Artan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hoard Posted March 8, 2009 Author Share Posted March 8, 2009 Dear Artan,I am just looking for any sort of actual verification from an official source which equates the Military Medal with the Medal of the Order of the Black Eagle. I am perfectly happy to have it via Albanian or any other precision. Any precision will do. Although, given that the prince was a Prussian officer, one could ask why not Prussian?As for the regnal titles. Wilhelm was proclaimed as Mbret (King) with the style of Madheri (Majesty) when the delegation led by Essad Pasha descended upon Neuwied in February 1914. I gather that these were the usual forms of address for the Ottoman Sultan. When the King landed in Durazzo in March, everyone addressed him as King, including members of his court and other foreign officials. However, shortly afterwards "clarification" was issued after protests from some of the protecting powers who, citing the London Treaty where 'Prince' is specified, insisted that the titles be rendered as 'Prince' and 'Highness' only.According to Heaton-Armstrong, who aslo calls him King in his diary, the European Royal Houses did not think Wilhelm would last the course. They did not want another exiled King roaming European courts and causing embarrasment all round.Consequently, one would need to look at the dates of the documents concerned before one can necessarily cite them as examples of confusion.Cheers,James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaim Qyteza Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Dear Artan,I am just looking for any sort of actual verification from an official source which equates the Military Medal with the Medal of the Order of the Black Eagle. I am perfectly happy to have it via Albanian or any other precision. Any precision will do. Although, given that the prince was a Prussian officer, one could ask why not Prussian?As for the regnal titles. Wilhelm was proclaimed as Mbret (King) with the style of Madheri (Majesty) when the delegation led by Essad Pasha descended upon Neuwied in February 1914. I gather that these were the usual forms of address for the Ottoman Sultan. When the King landed in Durazzo in March, everyone addressed him as King, including members of his court and other foreign officials. However, shortly afterwards "clarification" was issued after protests from some of the protecting powers who, citing the London Treaty where 'Prince' is specified, insisted that the titles be rendered as 'Prince' and 'Highness' only.According to Heaton-Armstrong, who aslo calls him King in his diary, the European Royal Houses did not think Wilhelm would last the course. They did not want another exiled King roaming European courts and causing embarrasment all round.Consequently, one would need to look at the dates of the documents concerned before one can necessarily cite them as examples of confusion.Cheers,JamesDear James,If we look the dates of the documents, the confusion increase. Regards, Artan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hoard Posted March 9, 2009 Author Share Posted March 9, 2009 Dear ArtanThank you for the dated scans.I think an explanation isn't too difficult to come up with.The June and July documents conform to the historical narrative. The odd document is the one dated 2nd September, which is from an Albanian to an Albanian and signed by a Vlora no less. Perhaps local nationlism was at play. After all, as far as the Albanians themselves were concerned he was King, not prince. Though, quite why it is in French, is a little difficult to understand.CheersJames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
922F Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 ARTAN!!!! MAGNFICANT!! I am overwhelmed by your continuing archive richness and variety! These are wonderful materials without parallel in my years following Albanian awards. I cannot congratulate you enought! Sincere thanks!!James, Klietmann writes that documents were officially written/presented in Albanian and French. French being the then universal diplomatic language it is no real surprise that French is the document language. Some people apparently got documents in both languages. Bob McNamara said that some documents were also given in German but whether these were items submitted in connection with 'permission to wear' requests is unclear. I suspect that when the Prince's official translator was being given an award, the language issue would be more complicated that usual. The 2nd September document is signed by the Court/Palace Marshal. To my understanding, there is no record of any Wied Albanian military merit medal heretofore. Eric, Thank you for the heads-up, more to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaim Qyteza Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Sorry, this is the only scan I have, The set belonged to Major Lucas Roelfsema Dutch Officerscross with number 30Mobilisation cross 1914-1918 Knight 4th class (officer) in the Order of the Black Eagle from Albania - 2-8-1914 4th class in the Pruissian Crown OrderKnight 2nd class in the White Falcon Order of Saxe-Weimer Medal of Prins William van Wied - 7-3-1914 See: http://www.onderscheidingenforum.nl/viewtopic.php?t=2 Dear Sirs,Through you, I found the site http://www.onderscheidingenforum.nl. In this site, I found a list of the Dutch officers decorated with the Black Eagle Order. According to this list, are 13 Dutch officers decorated with the class of Officer of BEO. But from the other side, to the Ordens Lexikon of Klietmann, does exist any Dutch decorated with the Officer of BEO. How can resolve this controversial? Decorated with Officer Clas of BEO, according to Klietmann:Date:1A German officer.04.08.19142Dr. R. Wendelmuth, German historian.19183Archivrat Schoppl, Regensburg, German Historian of Wied.19234A German, staff person (diploma of 1921).08.19145? (diploma of 1923).01.09.19146An official of the Princess Schonburg-Waldenburg Court.19197??8A German Jurist.19209A Wiener scholar.?10An Albanian poet, author of Albanian national anthem.1921 Regards,Artan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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