ColinRF Posted February 21, 2009 Author Share Posted February 21, 2009 (edited) Rick - think 26 is Franz Freiherr von Bfetten-Arnbach, also of 1. Schweres Reiter Regiment. - signing as Franz Freiherr von Bfetten?Could 11 be Eugen Graf von Quadt zu Wyfradt u. Jsny of the same rigiment? Signing as zu Jsny? Perhaps that's reaching a bit.Number 14 is probably Bresselau von BressensdorfNumber 36, Heinrich Gonnermann, should have been attributed to 5. Chevaulegers Regiment.I wish I could claim to be a whiz at indentifying signatures but I have a copy of von Kageneck's "Die Bamberger Reiter," which includes as an appendix what appears to be an extract from the Bavarian army rangliste for the cavalry. Colin Edited February 21, 2009 by ColinRF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Von Pfetten-Arnbach, sure. Czermak was a flyer, so perhaps a "cavalryman of the air?"This does appear to be more of a "theme" dream assembly rather than a meeting of purely old regimental comrades.The LaPo officer I mentioned is almost certainly Franz Ritter von Sei?er (1874-1973), head of the Bavarian State Police 1919-30 and there as an important local luminary since he was an ex field artilleryman. I didn't recognize the angle since he normally appears looking down his nose, so the top of his head was unfamiliar, but those are his ears and a Max Joseph-Knight's Cross first on his medal bar. There is a scribble in there which is probably "Seisser" but I've never seen his signature. He would have been offended not to have been asked to sign as the photo was passed around....#1 is (deep breath) Eckart Freiherr von Pappus und Trazberg Freiherr zu Laubenberg und Rauhenzell of 1st Heavy Cavalry Regiment and never alone when he was in a room all by himself. Roll call must have been a nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naxos Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Naxos - I think you are right about Czermak but I don't know who that would be in the context of this gathering.ColinJohann (Hans) Czermak served during WWI with in a Bavarian squadron last rank was Lt. d R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naxos Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 (edited) Colin, perhaps you can match the pictureHans Czermak 1918 Edited February 21, 2009 by Naxos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinRF Posted February 21, 2009 Author Share Posted February 21, 2009 (edited) Fascinating! You guys are making my day identifying these new people to research. I would never have cracked those sigantures. Johann Czermak did indeed end as Lt. d. R. and served in Bayerisches Feldfliegerabteilung 2, later commanding Bayerisches Jagdstaffel 32. I got that from http://www.theaerodrome.com/isearch/. Looks like another time waster site for me to join.Thanks for the picture Naxos!Colin Edited February 21, 2009 by ColinRF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinRF Posted February 26, 2010 Author Share Posted February 26, 2010 (edited) I have made some significant progress on identifying these signatures thanks to the publication of the various WWI Bavarian army rangliste documents through Ancestry.de. Its an awesome resource. Here is the updated log of signatures, almost all of which are officers of 1. Schwere Bayerisches Reiter Regiment. Those few who are not of this regiment were members of brigade or army staff. Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg must have had his Uncle Berthold's comrades from this regiment sign the paper that was ultimately affixed to his copy of the photo of the alumni dinner in 1929. Note that Eisner assassin Graf Arco Valley did indeed serve in this cavalry regiment before later transferring to I. Lieb Infanterie. 1 Eckart Anton von Pappus und Trazberg Freiherr Zu Laubenberg und Rauhenzell 2 Richard Walther 3 Berthold Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg 4 Ferdinand von Kobell 5 Hans Freiherr von Koenitz 6 Hartmann Maria Frhrr von Ow Auf Wachendorf 7 August Freiherr Teuffel von Birkensee 8 Karl Wilhelm Leonhard Czermak 9 unknown 9 10 unknown 10 11 unknown 11 12 Stephan Freiherr Reichlin von Meldegg 13 Graf Anton Alfred Emil Hubert Georg Arco Auf Valleÿ 14 Hans Erwin August Friedrich Bresselau von Bressensdorf 15 Oskar Frieherr Kress von Kressenstein 16 Heinrich Freiherr von Koenitz 17 Heinrich Freiherr von Aretin 18 Franz Freiherr Redwitz 19 Leonard (or Hans) Räth 20 Joseph Ernst Hermann Theodor Karl Maria Erbgr. Fugger von Gloett 21 Karl Graf von Moy 22 Karl Freiherr Von Speidel 23 Carl Max Graf Von und Zu Sandizell 24 Ludwig Freiherr von Leonrod 25 Ferdinand Maren Harthard Antoius Michael Josef Prinz von Der Leyen und Zu Hohen Geroldseck 26 Franz Freiherr von Pfetten 27 Albert Freiherr Aretin 28 Robert Karl Banfield 29 Claus Philipp Maria Justinian Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg 30 unknown 30 31 unknown 31 32 Otto Freiherr Von Kramer 33 Karl August Friedrich Freiherr von Bonnet Zu Meautry 34 Josef Fries 35 Rudolf Graf von Marogna-Redwitz 36 Karl Georg Bernhard Ritter von Gonnermann 37 Maximilian Freiherr von Mauchenheim Genannt Bechtolsheim 38 unknown 38 39 Ferdinand Graf von Arco-Zinneberg 40 Claus von Stauffenberg's personal stamp I will post close-ups of the few unknowns later to see if anyone feels inspired to guess. Colin Edited February 27, 2010 by ColinRF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulsterman Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 Outstanding! Yes, please post close ups -you never know who might look in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 (edited) Fregatte -If its Banfield I think it must be a relative. see - <a href="http://www.german-militaria.de/details/d43010.html" target="_blank">http://www.german-militaria.de/details/d43010.html</a> for Gottfried's signature Colin, that's likely the situation. Gottfried the well known naval flying boat ace, had an older brother Karl who also flew, and was credited with several kills. There was another relative Frederick Banfield (a cousin I think), and also flew for the Austrians. Gottfried stayed in Trieste after it was annexed by Italy, and became an Italian citizen. His younger brother Karl left the newly annexed area for England in 1920, and spent several years in there, until returning to Trieste circa 1925 or so. Edited February 27, 2010 by Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinRF Posted February 27, 2010 Author Share Posted February 27, 2010 (edited) Thanks Les - Robert Karl Banfield is on the rolls of 1. Schwere Reiter so it must be him as almost every officer signing this piece was a member of this regiment at this time and Stauffenberg's Uncle Berthold was Colonel. I expect the newly minted officer cadet Claus would have been sitting with these vets or would have been intoruduced to them by his Uncle at the dinner. I acquired another piece signed by Stauffenberg and many of the same individuals when I purchased this one. I later sold that one at auction. It was a replica Bavarian standard printed on cloth with pencil signatures. Here's a scan Thanks Colin Edited February 27, 2010 by ColinRF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinRF Posted February 27, 2010 Author Share Posted February 27, 2010 (edited) Here's unknown 9 - Freiherr von ? Edited February 27, 2010 by ColinRF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinRF Posted February 27, 2010 Author Share Posted February 27, 2010 (edited) unknown 10 - perhaps another Freiherr? Edited February 27, 2010 by ColinRF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinRF Posted February 27, 2010 Author Share Posted February 27, 2010 unknown 11 - zu Rh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinRF Posted February 27, 2010 Author Share Posted February 27, 2010 unknown 30 - this is the least legible one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinRF Posted February 27, 2010 Author Share Posted February 27, 2010 unknown 31 - I originally thought this name statrted with Arco but the first letter could be an "F" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinRF Posted February 27, 2010 Author Share Posted February 27, 2010 unknown 38 - perhaps starts with Max or Hans? Any help or guesses gratefully received. Also - I have susbcribed to the Bavarian rangliste database on Ancestry.de for 6 mos so let me know if you need anything looked up. Cheers Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinRF Posted May 3, 2010 Author Share Posted May 3, 2010 (edited) Thanks to the input from a contact in germany on another forum I think I have settled on # 9 being General der Infanterie Franz Freiherr von Soden, a Pour le Merite holder and father-in-law of Hartmann Maria Frhr. von Ow Auf Wachendorf (#6). Also # 31 appears to be Lt. a.D. Freiherr von Ribaupierre of 1. Schwere Reiter Regiment per the 1914-1918 rangliste. Here's an updated list: 1 Eckart Anton von Pappus und Trazberg Freiherr Zu Laubenberg und Rauhenzell 2 Richard Walther 3 Berthold Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg 4 Ferdinand von Kobell 5 Hans Freiherr von Koenitz 6 Hartmann Maria Frhrr von Ow Auf Wachendorf 7 August Freiherr Teuffel von Birkensee 8 Karl Wilhelm Leonhard Czermak 9 Franz Freiherr von Soden 10 unknown 10 11 unknown 11 12 Stephan Freiherr Reichlin von Meldegg 13 Graf Anton Alfred Emil Hubert Georg Arco Auf Valleÿ 14 Hans Erwin August Friedrich Bresselau von Bressensdorf 15 Oskar Frieherr Kress von Kressenstein 16 Heinrich Freiherr von Koenitz 17 Heinrich Freiherr von Aretin 18 Franz Freiherr Redwitz 19 Leonard (or Hans) Räth 20 Joseph Ernst Hermann Theodor Karl Maria Erbgr. Fugger von Gloett 21 Karl Graf von Moy 22 Karl Freiherr Von Speidel 23 Carl Max Graf Von und Zu Sandizell 24 Ludwig Freiherr von Leonrod 25 Ferdinand Maren Harthard Antoius Michael Josef Prinz von Der Leyen und Zu Hohen Geroldseck 26 Franz Freiherr von Pfetten 27 Albert Freiherr Aretin 28 Robert Karl Banfield 29 Claus Philipp Maria Justinian Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg 30 unknown 30 31 Freiherr von Ribaupierre 32 Otto Freiherr Von Kramer 33 Karl August Friedrich Freiherr von Bonnet Zu Meautry 34 Josef Fries 35 Rudolf Graf von Marogna-Redwitz 36 Karl Georg Bernhard Ritter von Gonnermann 37 Maximilian Freiherr von Mauchenheim Genannt Bechtolsheim 38 unknown 38 39 Ferdinand Graf von Arco-Zinneberg 40 Claus von Stauffenberg's personal stamp Almost there! Any additional help on #'s 10, 11, 30, 38 gratefully received (detailed scans of these signatures are posted above). Thanks Colin Edited May 3, 2010 by ColinRF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skookum Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 (edited) Hi, This my first post. I've revived this thread to add something that may be of interest. I have an interest in the Weimar era Reichswehr / Reichsheer. A cabinet photo of the Training Squadron of the 17th Reiter Regiment. Claus von Stauffenberg's squadron. Taken also, in 1929. A photo dated circa 1930 of the 17th Reiter Regiment on maneuvers. Edited June 12, 2010 by Skookum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinRF Posted June 14, 2010 Author Share Posted June 14, 2010 (edited) Thanks for posting this Skookum - particularly the first shot. Have you looked for Claus in the crowd? I believe in 1929 he would have been an officer cadet (Leutnant in 1930). Not sure if that would have entitled him to a sword. Also, I believe he was going through various qualification courses in this period so that may explain his absence if he's not there. He would be a very tall officer and I don't see anyone that looks like him .....but admittedly its hard to tell at this resolution. But a nice tie-in in any case. Colin Edited June 14, 2010 by ColinRF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skookum Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 "Have you looked for Claus in the crowd?" Yes , I have, but still looking. I've found 2 or3 who bear a passing resemblance. Very difficult to tell for sure. RS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinRF Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 (edited) unknown 38 - perhaps starts with Max or Hans? Any help or guesses gratefully received. Also - I have susbcribed to the Bavarian rangliste database on Ancestry.de for 6 mos so let me know if you need anything looked up. Cheers Colin Finally figured this one out - Max Hermann Freiherr Riederer von Paar zu Schoenau (signing Riederer v. Paar) - also of I. Bayerisches Schwere Reiter Regiment. Due to the fact that he was a relative of Stauffenberg through his wife, after the assassination attempt on Hitler on 20 Juli 1944, he was dismissed from his job in OKH (rank of Major d. Res.) and was expelled from the army. Colin Edited June 4, 2011 by ColinRF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinRF Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 A change to #22 - he's Maximilian Freiherr von Speidel, General a.D. He was Adolf Hitler's divisional commander in WWI. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freiherr Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Gen d Kav Prinz Alfons v Bayern of course. But I believe he was the only Wittlebach there. Cheers Freiherr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freiherr Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Char als Gen d Inf Adolf Ritter v Ruith, MMJO träger, Kmdr 7 ID that RR 17 belonged to until 1927 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freiherr Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 GenMj Albert Ritter v Beckh, MMJO träger, Kmdt v München 01.08.25 - 31.01.27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freiherr Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Not sure as no one has seen him before.... could be GenLt Hans v Viereck, Kmdr 3 Kav Div that RR17 came under since 1927. Kmdr 3 Kav Div before and after v Viereck were respectively Paul Hasse and Curt v Geinanth. There were well known so neither of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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