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Gentleman's Military Interest Club
Brian Wolfe

Staffordshire Police - a history and items from my collection

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Yes the band indicates it is for an Inspector or Chief Inspector. Most British police forces utilise the black braiding for Inspectors and then use silver for Superintendent ranks, although I have seen some Constabularies use the silver plain braiding for Inspectors. Merseyside is one I think.

Tom

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Yes the band indicates it is for an Inspector or Chief Inspector. Most British police forces utilise the black braiding for Inspectors and then use silver for Superintendent ranks, although I have seen some Constabularies use the silver plain braiding for Inspectors. Merseyside is one I think.

Tom

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the conformation.

I was very happy to add this to my Staffordshire collection.

Regards

Brian

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Nice cap, I have a Mid-Anglia one somewhere.

Purely a personal thing, but I've never liked voided badges showing the diced band behind, any voided badge I wore I backed with a small piece of black velvet (which does'nt mean I'm suggesting you stick one on that cap badge).

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Nice cap, I have a Mid-Anglia one somewhere.

Purely a personal thing, but I've never liked voided badges showing the diced band behind, any voided badge I wore I backed with a small piece of black velvet (which does'nt mean I'm suggesting you stick one on that cap badge).

Leigh,

I can see what you are getting at, it would look a lot better and I shall make the change on mine.

Thanks for the tip.

Regards

Brian

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Hello Everyone,

I was surprised when I saw this Staffordshire Police helmet plate for sale as it was not listed in my reference material at all. My reference is far from complete and not up todate so I guess I should expect to see "new" items coming along from time to time. This would be the third type with the Queen Elizabeth II crown. I am guessing this is the current issue as the earlier types both had enamel work around the Staffs knot (see second photo for comparison). The lack of enamel would make this a less expensive alternative which also makes me think it is a later type. If any of the members can shed light on this it would be greatly appreciated.

The measuremants are 9.2cm wide and 11.7cm tall which is the same size as the two earlier types. The plate is held in place by three sets of prongs, one of which can be seen in the photo at the 8:00 o'clock position.

Regards

Brian

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Here is a photo of the three types in the small drawer I store them in. The one to the viewer's left is the first type and has a green emaleled centre. The second type (to the bottom right) has a darker enamel centre with the knot being a gold colour, the first pattern has a silver coloured knot. The third type, if I am correct in my assumption is at the top of the photo.

They all look to have been made with the same die stamps with the dimensions being the same and the differences being in the attachment devices and enamle work, or lack of enamel.

I also wonder if the top example could have been "liberated" from the factory before the enamel process was undertaken.

Your thoughts on this are, as always, welcome.

Regards

Brian

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Hi Brian, I am sure that this plate is one that was either never enamelled or one that it has come off. I have never seen a Staffs bobby wearing one. Happy new year Ian

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Hi Brian, I am sure that this plate is one that was either never enamelled or one that it has come off. I have never seen a Staffs bobby wearing one. Happy new year Ian

Thanks Ian. I have my suspicions that these were what we used to call "lunch pail specials", meaning stolen from the stanping plant. I think this because the dealer has offered others in the same condition.

I just noticed the new banner on this secition of the forum. Very nice indeed.

Brian

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Thanks Ian. I have my suspicions that these were what we used to call "lunch pail specials", meaning stolen from the stanping plant. I think this because the dealer has offered others in the same condition.

I just noticed the new banner on this secition of the forum. Very nice indeed.

Brian

Hi Ian,

I've added your information that this is NOT a 3rd pattern to my Photo Gallery thereby reflecting the correct information.

Once again, thanks so much for your research into this, I do like the information on my Gallery to be accurate.

Regards :cheers:

Brian

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Brian and Ian - Hi. Keep an open mind on this - patterns of badges and plates depend on the Chief Constable and his Watch Committee - with guidelines from the Home Office. However, enamelling on helmet plates is quite recent - last 20 or, 30 years. Prior to this most plates were chromed with the Royal Cypher in the centre. My first helmet in 1967 was exactly like that - except in the Met. the E11R could be changed for a new Monarch - but then the Met. were always mean. I was still wearing that pattern when I left at the end of 1974.

Perhaps Ian could check with a local Force Museum to see what records they have. Personally, until proof otherwise, I would say this was an issue pattern.

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Hi Mervyn, I am certain that this plate is an unenameld one. Staffordshire were the first I think to issue enamelled plates. The early ones were oval in shape and for Staffordshire county and enamelled, then they became Staffordshire and Stoke still oval anf finally Staffordshire police in1974 when they adopted the star shaped plate with the light green colour and currently the darker green colour. I used to help out at the now closed staffs police museum and they didn't have a plain star shaped plate on display. hope this answers your inquiry. Ian

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Hi Mervyn, I am certain that this plate is an unenameld one. Staffordshire were the first I think to issue enamelled plates. The early ones were oval in shape and for Staffordshire county and enamelled, then they became Staffordshire and Stoke still oval anf finally Staffordshire police in1974 when they adopted the star shaped plate with the light green colour and currently the darker green colour. I used to help out at the now closed staffs police museum and they didn't have a plain star shaped plate on display. hope this answers your inquiry. Ian

Just because I'll post items from my collection at the drop of a hat :rolleyes: here are two early helmet plates mentioned by Ian above.

Regards

Brian

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Hello everyone,

I've managed to obtain a period chain for my Staffordshire Police whistle and wanted to update my post of this item. The chain measures 38cm (15 3/4 inches) in length. It has been nickel plated and the links have been soldered closed. I understand that this is an older variety of chain as later one were not soldered closed, see second photo for comparison.

When possible I like to add such missing parts and this addition makes me quite happy.

Regards

Brian

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Here is the comparison between the two chains mentioned above.

The chain on your left is the older one with the soldered links and the one on the right is the later type with "open" links.

Brian

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Hello Everyone,

It seems that everytime I think I have the crowning piece to my Staffordshire Police collection something else comes along and either bumps out the current holder of the "crown" or at least joins it in that position. The Staffordshire Police sword I posted a while ago is right up there but here is something just as good and someday perhaps just as rare.

This is a helmet that was issued to police officers who rode the Velocette LE200 in the 1960's. The helmet has extra padding and leather straps to hold it in place while operating the "motor bike". I have been told that due to the helmet's habit of wobbling around on the officer's head it was dubbed the "Noddy". I do need conformation on this point so I hope the membership will confirm or dispell this information. The helmet was short lived in any case and is a scarce item to find. This particular Noddy has a helmet plate to the Staffordshire County Police as does the officer in the photo shown later in this post. I obtained a replacement plate but the cork liner in the helmet would suffer too much damage in the removal of the original plate and the installation of the new one. I also noticed a dent in the rosette on the top of the helmet and I would not be surprised to find that this damage and that to the helmet plate was the result of the same misfortune. I don't think there was an accident as the helmet itself is in very good condition, it was probably simply dropped. Either way, I am going to leave the helmet and its original plate together.

I hope you enjoy this addition to my collection.

Regards

Brian

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Staffordshire County Police wore the Met-style helmet until the force's amalgamation with Stoke on Trent City Police in 1967. The new force was named Staffordshire County and Stoke-on-Trent Constabulary. The force adopted the City's coxcomb helmet but with a County-style oval helmet plate. In 1974 the name was changed to Staffordshire Police and a Guelphic Star plate was adopted.

So the two helmets are not contemporaneous.

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Staffordshire County Police wore the Met-style helmet until the force's amalgamation with Stoke on Trent City Police in 1967. The new force was named Staffordshire County and Stoke-on-Trent Constabulary. The force adopted the City's coxcomb helmet but with a County-style oval helmet plate. In 1974 the name was changed to Staffordshire Police and a Guelphic Star plate was adopted.

So the two helmets are not contemporaneous.

Hello Nick,

Thanks for that information. I'm actually very happy to hear this as the Noddy now holds two "places" in my cllection.

Regards

Brian

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Brian - a nice addition to the collection. I know the Met. had the Velocette - our beat P.C.'s did a short conversion course and they were used for that purpose - station area patrols. I have never seen a complete list for the Forces that adopted this small m/cycle - perhaps members can add some ?

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Brian and Mervyn

I had the chance today to ask a friend of mine regarding the Velocette, he joined West Sussex Constabulary in 1966 and clearly remembers these bikes being used. By this time Officers were issued with a cork, open faced motorcycle helmet with a short peak but he stated that prior to that a 'Noddy' helmet had been worn. He described this as a cork based version of the standard helmet with a reinforced chin strap but couldn't tell my why it was known as a noddy! He's searching for a photo, so fingers crossed.

Simon

Edited by coldstream

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Brian and Mervyn

I had the chance today to ask a friend of mine regarding the Velocette, he joined West Sussex Constabulary in 1966 and clearly remembers these bikes being used. By this time Officers were issued with a cork, open faced motorcycle helmet with a short peak but he stated that prior to that a 'Noddy' helmet had been worn. He described this as a cork based version of the standard helmet with a reinforced chin strap but couldn't tell my why it was known as a noddy! He's searching for a photo, so fingers crossed.

Simon

Thanks Simon,

I'll be interested to see what your friend finds in the way of a photo.

Regards

Brian

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At the time the Metropolitan Police introduced the Velocette - as a low-cost way of providing motorized transport for officers - constables were still expected to follow military custom and acknolwedge more senior officers with a salute. Easy if you are on foot but astride a motorbike ... problematical.

The solution was to allow PCs to acknowledge their superiors with a nod instead. Hence Noddy bike.

Edited by NickLangley

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