Brian Wolfe Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 No you were not seeing double, I accidently posted the image twice. Below is a larger photo of the two above, showing a member of the Mounted Branch during the final years before it was disbanded in 2000. Material for this post was taken from the Staffordshire Police 150th Anniversary Issue Magazine, several different internet sources (mostly to confirm the material I had was correct) and the submission from my friend and fellow GMIC member Stuart Bates. Many thanks Stuart. I hope you all enjoyed this piece and the latest addition to my STaffordshire collection. Regards Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Bates Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Brian, I've already said it but what a terrific find. Now you need one with a King's crown You said earlier that all police horses had a name beginning with the letter "S" but PC Roberts is riding Peel. Do you know when the change was made? I presume that the "S" is because it was Staffordshire. Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Wolfe Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 Brian, I've already said it but what a terrific find. Now you need one with a King's crown You said earlier that all police horses had a name beginning with the letter "S" but PC Roberts is riding Peel. Do you know when the change was made? I presume that the "S" is because it was Staffordshire. Stuart Yes the "S" was for Staffordshire but it was only the initial 50 that were given names that began with "S". I suppose that after 50 names it became harder to come up with them. Good eye by the way, Stuart. Regards Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Bates Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I am not sure that I would like to have a horse named "S"tuart or be named after such a beast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Wolfe Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 I am not sure that I would like to have a horse named "S"tuart or be named after such a beast! Stuart, the horse is such a noble beast. Check out the paintiing by Lady Elizabeth Butler of the Scots Greys at the Battle of Waterloo. They also led the charge of the light Brigade at Balaclava, ill fated as it was, the list goes on. Better to have ones name associated with a majestic animal like a horse than a stubborn old mule (no inference intended). I just know I'll pay for that one. Regards Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Bates Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Brian, gotcha! The painting by Lady Butler shows the 2nd (Royal North British) Regiment of Dragoons which was their designation from 1751 to 1866 in which year they became the 2nd (Royal North British) Dragoons (Royal Scots Greys). Being heavy cavalry they were not part of the Charge of the Light Brigade and although the heavies were supposed to support the light cavalry they were not thrown away. At last, something of substance I can add. I used to own several horses and they are big dumb brutes. Get kicked by one or thrown and you will agree Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Wolfe Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 Brian, gotcha! The painting by Lady Butler shows the 2nd (Royal North British) Regiment of Dragoons which was their designation from 1751 to 1866 in which year they became the 2nd (Royal North British) Dragoons (Royal Scots Greys). Being heavy cavalry they were not part of the Charge of the Light Brigade and although the heavies were supposed to support the light cavalry they were not thrown away. At last, something of substance I can add. I used to own several horses and they are big dumb brutes. Get kicked by one or thrown and you will agree Stuart Well, it would seem the problem is in my writing. I meant that "horses" led the charge and not the Scots Greys. Sorry, one must be careful otherwise the message can become erroneous due to sentence structure. The painting, I believe, has to do with the Battle of Waterloo. Thanks for pointing that out. Regards Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Well researched Brian. This County is like many in the UK - fairly small numbers and therefore limited promotion prospects. This causes many younger men to leave and join larger Forces. Your Martingale is a good find - they tend to stay with the saddle and equipment - although they are a collecting field in their own right.. Mainly of course for Cavalry. All of the Counties in Britain had interesting stories about their foundation and early struggles. Many produced Force Histories for their 150th Anniversaries - which mainly took place over the past twenty - or so, years. Robin - as a former Ch. Insp. with his Force wrote one and it would be excellent if he had the time to do a short history for our Forum. (Hint - Hint) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickLangley Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 (edited) The Staffordshire Police as we know it today (formally, Staffordshire and Stoke-on-Trent Constabulary) was formed on 1 April 1974 with the amalgamation of: Stafford County Police Borough of Newcastle under Lyme Police City of Lichfield Police Stoke on Trent City Police and The Staffordshire Constabulary. It would be remiss to omit the Hanley Borough Police. This formed the nucleus of the Stoke on Trent County Borough Police when, in 1910, the town was created from the six Potteries towns of Hanley, Burslem, Longton, Fenton, Tunstall and Stoke upon Trent. Stoke on Trent became a city in 1925. Edited August 1, 2011 by NickLangley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Wolfe Posted August 1, 2011 Author Share Posted August 1, 2011 The Staffordshire Police as we know it today (formally, Staffordshire and Stoke-on-Trent Constabulary) was formed on 1 April 1974 with the amalgamation of: Stafford County Police Borough of Newcastle under Lyme Police City of Lichfield Police Stoke on Trent City Police and The Staffordshire Constabulary. It would be remiss to omit the Hanley Borough Police. This formed the nucleus of the Stoke on Trent County Borough Police when, in 1910, the town was created from the six Potteries towns of Hanley, Burslem, Longton, Fenton, Tunstall and Stoke upon Trent. Stoke on Trent became a city in 1925. Thank you very much Nick. I did not find that in anything I read while researching this article. You've added not only to the post but to my education regarding the Staffordshire Police. Regards Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickLangley Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Local government in the southern part of Staffordshire - The Black Country - was very, very complicated until the reviews of the early 1970s. The county boroughs of Wolverhampton and Walsall were in Staffordshire but maintained their own police forces. The county boroughs of Smethwick and West Bromwich were policed by Staffordshire. The county borough of Dudley though surrounded by Staffordshire was actually an exclave of Worcestershire and had its own police force. Strangely Dudley Castle, in the centre of the town, was officially part of Staffordshire. In the late 1960s the Wolverhampton, Walsall, and Dudley forces amalgamated along with the newly created county borough of Warley to create the West Midlands Constabulary. This merged with Birmingham City and Coventry and Warwickshire forces to create the West Midlands Police in 1974. A little further north the county borough of Burton on Trent chose not to have its own police force and was always under the jurisdiction of the county. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Wolfe Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 Thanks once again Nick for adding useful information. It sounds like it is all quite confusing. At least in my part of Ontario the amagamation of poiice services pretty well took place at one time and has remained in place since. The Provincial Police took over many smaller municipalities and Regional Police Services took over many others. However this is not the post to discuss that in any depth. Regards Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffsPolice Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Hi all My name is Paul Newton and I work for the Public Relations department of Staffordshire Police. We're beginning to work on a new project, where we'll be celebrating the 170 year anniversary of the force in October by posting our history on our Facebook timeline. We currently have 25,000 fans on Facebook (the most of any force in the country) and are continually finding new ways to engage with the community. We hope that by posting the history on Facebook, we'll attract new fans, and make those already fans interested in our history. I came across this post on your forum, and wondered if you would like to work with us on our project. I'm especially interested in your photos of old helmets, uniforms and crests, etc.. to re post on our Facebook site. If we did this, for each photo we would thank the owner of the material, and also this forum. Is this something we could look at? If a forum moderator would like to contact me, my email is paul.newton@staffordshire.pnn.police.uk or call me on 01785 232334 Thank you for your time Paul Newton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Paul, this sounds a very interesting project and I am sure our Members will be able to assist. I will leave it to my fellow Regional Administrator - Brian Wolfe to contact you. He lives in Canada and started the original post. With best wishes. Mervyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Wolfe Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 Hi all My name is Paul Newton and I work for the Public Relations department of Staffordshire Police. We're beginning to work on a new project, where we'll be celebrating the 170 year anniversary of the force in October by posting our history on our Facebook timeline. We currently have 25,000 fans on Facebook (the most of any force in the country) and are continually finding new ways to engage with the community. We hope that by posting the history on Facebook, we'll attract new fans, and make those already fans interested in our history. I came across this post on your forum, and wondered if you would like to work with us on our project. I'm especially interested in your photos of old helmets, uniforms and crests, etc.. to re post on our Facebook site. If we did this, for each photo we would thank the owner of the material, and also this forum. Is this something we could look at? If a forum moderator would like to contact me, my email is paul.newton@staffordshire.pnn.police.uk or call me on 01785 232334 Thank you for your time Paul Newton Hello Paul, Welcome to the GMIC. You are more than welcome to use any of my material you find fitting. I'll contact you via email a bit later. Regards Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffsPolice Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Fantastic, thank you. Have picked up your email and will reply direct. Many thanks Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Wolfe Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share Posted February 20, 2013 There comes a time in your collecting life that you start to fill in those gaps left as you have built your collection over the years. Admittedly the numbers of gaps I have to fill will indeed take up the rest of my life...I'm not complaining, mind. One of the items that have managed to elude me for several years has finely found a home in my Staffordshire collection. This horse martingale badge is from the Victorian period (for pictures of the Elizabeth II martingale see post #123 in this section). I believe I have covered the history of the martingale in that previous post so this is one of those “look what I got” posts. I will admit that I am more than a little pleased to be adding this horse badge to the collection. Regards Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Wilkinson Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 A timely warning to those interested collectors who may see similar UK police items being offered for sale on a well known internet auction site, the seller being based in Bulgaria. Be very careful about touching any apparently genuine UK police badges being sold (He also offers military badges) . They are almost certainly Bulgarian made recent reproductions. The seller has his feedback configured in such a way that "buyers" cannot be identified. I've always regarded (a personal opinion) this as a very suspicious tactic. Forewarned is forearmed!! Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Dave - thankyou for this warning - although to most collectors the word Bulgaria or, any others of these East European countries should mean , tread carefully. One small point - it would be better to make a separate post - it almost looks as if Brian's great Martingale is suspect....................... Mervyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Wolfe Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 Thank you Dave, With the number of fakes on the market collecting becomes less and less attractive. I have never minded reproductions being offered as long as it is stated so but even when that happens these fakes, as that is what they are no matter how you try to hide the fact up by calling them reproductions, will end up on the collector's market as original. If only reproductions were marked as such, but that is seldom the case. So, is mine a fake? I will not argue that it is not at this time (not that you are looking to argue), though it looks authentic. I'll be on the look for another for compairison and if this one turns out to be bogus I'll be posting those findings.. Thank you again for the warning. Regards Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex K Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Hello Everyone, For quite a while now I have been going to write a short history of the Staffordshire Police and feature specimens from my collection. I have finally gotten around to this and here it is. I started to collect to the Staffordshire Police quite by chance when a fellow collector, Jeff Cowdell, and then serving member of the Staffordshire Police sent me a Staffordshire custodian helmet. Jeff had no idea that he would also kindle an interest in British Police headgear and while I'm not sure my wife has yet forgiven him I have him to thank for an interesting collecting journey. I must also thank (blame) our fellow GMIC members, Mervyn Mitton and Stuart Bates for my addiction. STAFFORDSHIRE POLICE The foundations for the Staffordshire Police were laid in October of 1842 when it was decided at the Court of Quarter Sessions at Stafford that a Chief Constable should be appointed for a County Constabulary. This Constabulary was divided into three districts. 1. A mining district in the south of the county which would include the towns of Bilston, Willenhall, West Bromwich, Wednesbury, Smithwick and Handsworth. The South Staffordshire Constabulary had been formed in 1840 to police the above area but was amalgamated with the new force. 2. A pottery district in the North including the six pottery towns of Tunstall, Burslem, HAnely, Stoke, Fenton and Longton. 3. An area known as the Rural District took the remaining areas of the county. This excluded the four towns which already had police forces: Stafford, Newcastle-under-Lyme, Walsall and Tamworth. The first Chief Constable, Mr. John Hayes Hatton, 1842 - 1857, was appointed on 6 December 1842. He was 47 years old and a professional policeman. The uniform was originally a swallow tail coat and top hat which was replaced in the mid 1860s by a frock coat and kepi for daytime duties. A helmet was worn at night and in wet weather conditions. Other police forces preferred the helmet for all occasions. In 1894 the Chief Constable of the time, Captain the Honourable George Agustus Anson R.A.,C.B.E., M.V.O., D.L. (appointed in 1888) established the first detective branch for the force. These plain cloths officers were known as Enquiry Officers. The First World War brought with it a need for manpower to fill the vacancies created by officers leaving the force to enlist in the armed forces. All leave was cancelled for the duration and men were not allowed to retire. The Police Reserve, consisting of men who had recently retired, was called into active duty and the Special Constabulary was formed. The Police Reserve served in a full-time capacity while the "Specials" were a part-time force. The Special Constabulary was maintained after the War to provide support to the regular police officers. The Second World War again saw a need for replacement officers and the Police Reserve and the Special Constabulary stepped up to fill the void left by the officers enlisting in the armed forces. After WWII the Police Reserve was disbanded, however, the Special Constabulary continued to serve. The Mounted Branch was established in 1919 under Chief Inspector William Dalkins. The Mounted Branch served until 2000 when it was disbanded. I'll discuss the Mounted Branch in more detail later on in the post after a new item for the collection arrives. The Motor Transport and Patrol Branch was formed in 1930 under Chief Constable Colonel Sir Herbert Hunter, Kt., C.B., C.B.E., K.P.M. 1929 - 1951. This was followed by the introduction of motor cycles in 1960 for Traffic Patrol. This was either under Chief Constable Colonel George Hern, C.B.E., O.St.J, K.P.M., D.L. 1951 - 1960 or Chief Constable Mr. Stanley Peck, C.B.E., O.St.J.,B.E.M.,Q.P.M.,D.L. 1960 - 1964. More reserch will be required on this point. The first women police officers in Staffordshire were Lily Broadhead and Gertrude Cowley who were appointed to Stoke-on-Trent Bourough in 1921. Miss Cowley resigned in 1924 but Miss Broadhead continued to serve until 1952 retiring with the rank of Sergeant. It should be noted that women did serve during the Great War (1914 - 1918) but strong opposition kept them from being made a permanent appointment. The counties continued to resist employing Police Women until 1944. Under Chief Constable Mr. Arthur Rees, C.B.E.,K.St.J., Q.P.M., D.L., M.A. 1964 - 1977 the restrictions as to what areas of police service to which women could be employed was lifted in 1976. The Staffordshire Police as we know it today (formally, Staffordshire and Stoke-on-Trent Constabulary) was formed on 1 April 1974 with the amalgamation of: Stafford County Police Borough of Newcastle under Lyme Police City of Lichfield Police Stoke on Trent City Police and The Staffordshire Constabulary. Hi Brian a well researched history! as a native "Stokey" all the places etc you mention are home from home, well done regards Alex K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Wolfe Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 Thank you very much Alex. It's always good to hear from someone, with first hand knowledge of a subject, that you got it right; it makes the effort worth while. Regards Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickLangley Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Can someone explain why Staffordshire Constabulary would go to the trouble of having a QVC martingale manufactured when the mounted branch didn't come into existence until 1919? To me, the crown looks dodgy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Wolfe Posted February 24, 2013 Author Share Posted February 24, 2013 Hi Nick, The short answer to your question would have to be "no", it would have been a question in my mind as well because your date for a mounted unit was indeed 1919. I based my purchase of this item on two factors, neither of which proves the existance of mounted police prior to 1919. In the Staffordshire Police Commemoritive issue of their magazine in 1992 for their 150th anniversary there is a photo of a good sized collection of Staffoprdshire Police insignia. In this collection is a Victorian martingale badge, I looked very closely at the picture in this collection and it is so close to the one I have photographed as to have been it's twin. So I based it on an established collection to its existance and to the overall look. Of course this proves absolutely nothing other than this unknown collector and I have purchased a similar badge, authentic or not. I have been informed by a fellow collector and former Staffs PC that this particular collector had included in his collection, and therefore the photo in the magazine, several generic items that are common throughout the UK, such as an aluminum Special Constable brassard. Were there mounted officers for special duties, I don't know. Is this a a case where a collector pre 1992 and another (me) in 2013 fell prey to a maker of fanacy items? Possibly, however, up to this point I have not seen these on the market in any qualtity, though I don't profess to have my finger on the pulse of the collecting world. Regards Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 1919 may have been the date for the formation of a mounted branch - but, what about the official horse furniture for senior officers ? Horses were the common mode of transport for 'Black Marias' , for messengers, for patrol Inspectors. I won't pass an opinion without seeing an item like this - however, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it isn't OK. The fixing spikes on the reverse are well done - if a little short. The suspicious bit is that there is a Bulgarian involved. However, brace yourselves - I understand that 200,000 are waiting for the EU to approve their membership before they all descend on Britain. One authority states that the most common foreign language in Britain is Polish ! I can't really complain - my family diid the 'descending' bit in the 7th C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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