Bundesrepublik The new "Iron Cross"

[Guest Rick Research]

Part of the iconographic "issue" is that the only GERMAN Iron Cross was that of the Third Reich. Before that it was PRUSSIAN. It became, in effect, a national award in the 1914 war, but was never actually made one until Hitler elevated it to primacy in precedence for wear in 1935 as part of the Nazi policy of centralization-- stomping out old survivals of localism.

Anyone who suggested, to a pre-1935 Saxon or Bavarian that "the" award of Germany was an Iron Cross and you'd have been regarded as very very strange.

The real issue is not nomenclature but appalling lack of quality in design or materials. The designers, those who approved the designs, and the blatantly low-bid manufacturer should have Very Bad Things done to them, their families, and then their memory should be erased from the human race pour encorager les autres.

A completely new national award that was dignified, well made, and worthy of respect--and with some actual (gasp) intrinsic value--would be proper. This toenail polished piece of junk doesn't cut it at any level. Federal Republic ribbons are also far too blandly repetitive. :sleep:

[JimZ]

--LOGIC ALERT-- --LOGIC ALERT-- --LOGIC ALERT-- --LOGIC ALERT-- --LOGIC ALERT--

JimZ is right... But still, interesting debate.

Just making sure we do get lost in the debate after having lost track of what is supposed to be what!!!

Seen some of the latest russian medals? - Forget the cheap Umalatova awards - New Russia's awards are nothing much to write home about.

Seems to me that today, some governments fail to place any importance on the medals they award the people who serve or risk limb and life for their country. Medals have just become trinkets and seem to be losing the social importance they had a hundred, even fifty odd years ago. Perhaps this attitude is simply being reflected in the manufacture of medals. A pity indeed if this is the case.

Rick, thanks for your last comment particularly as it answered something which has long since bothered me - why isn't the 1914 iron cross always worn first in imperial ribbon bars!

Toe nail polish - Don't they call that soft enamel?

[Jacques]

I have a question for our friends from Germany.

I was based in Germany and served with the multinational NATO AWACS Force during the Kosovo and Bosnian conflicts.

1/2 of my crew (including my CO) were in the Luftwaffe, great guys, it was a pleasure and an honour to serve with these true professionals!

Shortly after we were all "gonged" with the NATO medals, my German colleagues received their Einsatzmedaille.

They proudly showed them to us, then lowered their eyes, sighed and said how sad it was that the medals were going in a drawer, for they were not allowed to wear them. It was then I learned that German servicemen and women were not allowed to wear their decorations on their service uniforms, not even on parade!! Only the undress ribbons...

WTF?!?

I sincerely hope this sad and ludicrous regulation has been abolished by now? Please, somebody tell me it isn't so any more!

Edited October 31, 2011 by Jacques

[Jacques]

Hi,

I'm surprise by this words. I served 5 years in a French-German unit and I can affirm that all the german soldiers wear all their medals during the various parades, commemoratives medals (NATO, UNO,etc..), national service medal as the "Ehrenkreuz" or "Ehrenmedaille" and foreign decorations. the " Ehrenkreuz" is also awarded to very few foreigners.

jacques

Edited October 31, 2011 by Jacques

[TacHel]

Jacques, when was this?

I returned from Germany in 2000, not a single Luftwaffe personel was allowed to wear his/her medals on ANY parade on base or otherwise.

[azyeoman]

Here's one I rather like despite it being post war.

[azyeoman]

The reverse.

[azyeoman]

Here's another that is a most interesting modern bar.

[azyeoman]

And the reverse.

[azyeoman]

The reverse.

[azyeoman]

Here's another that is a most interesting modern bar.

[azyeoman]

I've got the corresponding ribbon bar for the above Somali/Yugo bar too. Nicely made with the corresponding little bars "SFOR" and "Former Yugoslavia." Many are quite disparaging about these modern medals, but they made up nicely on this bar.

[azyeoman]

Hi Friends,

Nowadays it is nearly impossible, to wear the medals in original size. According our armed forcel regulations there are only a handful occasions to wear fullsize dec. Otherwise only a few people let their medals mount in the proper style. A German medal bar costs quite a lot of money.

Thats why You can nearly never see one. This ones at eBay and at dealers are more or less make-ups for display or for collectors.

Usually You can wear ribbon bars or miniature bars on the evening dress. BTW, there are no limitations how many dec. You can wear.

Best regards

Daniel

How much does it cost to make a medal bar in Euros?

:whistle:

[Jacques]

Hi,

the picture was taken in 2008, but I served there from 2003 to 2008 and in 2003 , I already saw such wear during all the parades.

jacques

[Jacques]

another one

[Jacques]

the double flags guard

[TacHel]

Jacques... I think this is GREAT! I really hope it isn't a special permission for the Franco-German brigade and that this stupid rule has indeed been removed from the Bundeswehr orders.

[Jacques]

for sure it is not forbidden at the DF Brigade, and I saw other units of which the guys were wearing their full medals or the ribbons bar.

[azyeoman]

Great photos; what's interesting is that the medals appear to be mounted in the same moder French style as opposed to the German styles used up to the 60s. Do you think it's in vogue to do that or could it be that it's expensive to mount them another way?

[Jacques]

What I observed is that it depends , I saw both way to wear them. I guess that german officers or NcO's prefer wear them at the german fashion...I think they prefer the german style, or just the medals pinned separatly. At the DF Brigade is a bit particular because some of them ask the french tailor to prepare their medals bar, thus the french style..

[speedytop]

Hi,

why must a soldier wear all his decorations in original size? Is it important for the force and the combat power of an army?

I think, that it is well done by the German military authorities, to allow in general the wear of ribbon bars, and to constrain the wear of the original decorations. Only allowed for a few events like parades.

And I think, that some soldiers in the parade formation wore their original decorations only provisional pinned, not complete mounted, see e.g. the soldier in Post 66 in the middle.

This is my very personal opinion.

Uwe

[Jacques]

In the french Aarmy, the wear of full medals bar is only allowed during the parades, for the troops under weapons, and for the authority who is delivering medals, generally the commander. the other ones (HQ officers, etc) wear the ribbons bar. the ribbons bar is worn with the service dress uniform. In the German army, it is quite the same rules or customs. why medals are mounted ? certainly because it is well done and have a better look than individually pinned, as they are worn during parade, the parade dress uniform must be perfect . Ii is part of the military rules of a country and part of its traditions. It has a cost for sure.

Edited November 3, 2011 by Jacques

[azyeoman]

What I observed is that it depends , I saw both way to wear them. I guess that german officers or NcO's prefer wear them at the german fashion...I think they prefer the german style, or just the medals pinned separatly. At the DF Brigade is a bit particular because some of them ask the french tailor to prepare their medals bar, thus the french style..

Fascinating. Thank you for the explanation and sharing the great photos. Please post others if you have them as it's always nice to see modern groups on uniforms rather than just the camo... : )

[TacHel]

I have NEVER seen a Bundeswehr soldier wearing is full medal bar in full dress uniform on parade. The only pics I ever saw to the contrary were of serving bundeswehr WW2 vets wearing their 57ers, and they weren't on parade, these were personal or studio portraits.

Does ANYBODY have ANY pics of modern (fairly recent) Bundeswehr parades in full dress uniform where medals are worn? I would love to see some!! Because until I do... I'll be resigned to believing this is only tolerated in this brigade.

[Jacques]

next week I'll attend a ceremony in Germany to be awarded the Ehrenkreuz in silver, I'll ask to the german officers concerning the wear of full medal on the full dress uniform on parade.