Marineküstenpolizei / Feldgendarmerie

[Gordon Williamson]

Photo at Mervyn's request.

These guys were drafted in from the civilian Wasserschutzpolizei in 1940. From what I can gather, unlike their Army counterparts, they were not used in formal units of any size, but rather a handful were allocated to the office of each Harbour Master.

Once transferred however, they became members of the armed forces subject to military law and regulations and were no longer part of the police structure.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Thankyou Gordon. When I saw this under old photos, I thought it was just the thought provoking subject that we - as a police interest group - would like to see. I have always been interested in the suspended shields of office that the feld gendarmerie (?) wore and this picture is the first I have ever seen showing one as a breast badge. We have had several of the chained type through the shop and I am always worried about them because of the amount of radium (?) on the lettering. I have been told that this was strong enough to kill many of the police and could leave a burnt impression on the skin.Was this true - or, just another WW2 myth ? The other question I would ask - is this uniform their traditional peacetime one - or, did they adopt army style for the hostilities period ? Mervyn

[Gordon Williamson]

Hi Mervyn

Yes the MKP Gorget was unique in being worn directly below the national emblem on the right breast rather than centred on the chest and worn from a chain.

There was provision for this Gorget to be worn from a chain when worn on the greatcoat however. It wasn't a complete chain though. Two small short lengths of chain were worn, one suspended from a hook either side of the greatcoat collar, and the pin on the back of the gorget simply passed through the bottom link of each small peice of chain.

It was also unique in being devoid of the eagle/swastika, probably because it was worn directly below the eagle on the uniform.

I really think the story of the radium being at danger level is just a myth.

Prior to transferring, these MKP guys wore the uniform of the Wasserschutzpolizei. This in itself was very similar to the naval uniform anyway ( dark blue double breasted reefer jacket) but was worn with WSP pattern shoulder straps. What confuses matters is that in the initial few months after the MKP was set up, those transferred continued to wear WSP uniform, then a mix of WSP and KM.

This guy wears KM uniform though (navy breast eagle and navy shoulder straps), so is probably a later photo.

Very, very hard to find photos of these guys wearing the gorget. I've only seen two or three photos (including this one) in 40 years.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Then we are additionally priviledged to see this photo. Is he carrying a side-arm - it's difficult to see with the dark uniform ?

Do you have anything else of police interest you could share? p.s. I.m still not convinced about the radium!!

[Gordon Williamson]

No, there isn't a side arm, at least I can't make one out on the original print.

I don't collect Police items <i>per se</i>, my interest is in <i>Military</i> Police, so what I have pertains mostly to the Feldgendarmerie, Marineküstenpolizei, Geheime Feldpolizei etc.

I'm working on a book on the various military police formations and have been fortunate in finding some really nice photos like the one in this thread, mostly from Ebay often rare stuff misidentified as Feldgendarmerie ( just because a Gorget is being worn).

A lot of the photos I have found, and insignia, cuffbands etc have already been posted.

Here is one piece I was particularly glad to acquire and which partly falls into the "police" category.

The civil police used a small number of cuffbands (Motorisierte Gendarmerie, Deutsche Wehrmacht etc) all of which were either hand embroidered or machine eembroidered on brown wool.

The Military Police of the Wehrmacht wore a cuffband "Feldgendarmerie" which was woven in rayon.

In the very earliest days of the Feldgendarmerie, members of the civil police who had been drafted in continued to wear their police uniforms but with army insignia added.

I believe this Feldgendarmerie NCO cuffband is from this early transitional period - being in Police style manufacture embroidered on brown wool, rather than simply being a variant of the army pattern band.

By the way, if you worry about Radium in Feldgendarmerie Gorgets you encounter there is an easy solution. Sell them to me. I love Gorgets <img src="http://gmic.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/jumping.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="jumping.gif" />

[Gordon Williamson]

Here is another interesting piece. In the early post-war period, keeping order in occupied Germany was no easy task. Former Feldgendarmerie troops were employed under British control to help keep order amongst the huge number of German troops who were being demobilised. The armband has the title in both languages, British and German.

[Mervyn Mitton]

You must have a fantastic collection - I wish I could offer you a gorget. Must be five years since we last had one - Sth. Africa has a limited number of German collections - but never-the-less, there are some important ones. The post war armband looks as if it might be rare? Even though you have posted your items - that was to other sub-forums - I, for one - would be very interested to see a few more, if you have time.

Best Mervyn

[Gordon Williamson]

Even though you have posted your items - that was to other sub-forums - I, for one - would be very interested to see a few more, if you have time.

Best Mervyn

Happy to oblige, but as they've already been posted, I don't want to flood this new area with seperate threads on the various Third Reich period bits so Ive changed the title of this thread and will just add them here.

First, here is an interesting Soldbuch to a Feldgendarmerie guy who is an example of these who continued to served under British control after the end of the war. Note the date of his final promotion - June 1945 !!

[Gordon Williamson]

Nice Soldbuch to a Feldgendarmerie officer (very hard to find) who was promoted from the ranks. Note the suffix after each rank "d. Fg." (der Feldgendarmerie)

[Gordon Williamson]

Rare Wehrpass to a member of the Geheime Feldpolizei. I have quite a bit of supporting documentation, latters etc with this one. The guy was a member of the Gestapo, asisgned to the Army to serve with the GFP.

Should point out that the photo IS of this guy but is a loose one just laid on the page in the Wehrpass where the original photo was removed.

[Gordon Williamson]

Entry showing his service with Gruppe Geheime Feldpolizei 2 in occupied France.

[Gordon Williamson]

Here are a couple of examples of the Feldgendarmerie cuffband showing variant weave patterns

[Gordon Williamson]

A very rare shot of Luftwaffe field police

[Gordon Williamson]

Another security branch which it is very difficult to find photos for. These guys are Bahnhofswache who provided security at railways stations, looking for deserters, those without correct travel papers etc.

[Gordon Williamson]

And here is the MKP gorget as worn in the first photo, shown alongside a regular Feldgendarmerie piece for size comparison

[Mervyn Mitton]

Gordon - thankyou - very interesting and informative - I have enjoyed looking at the different pictures. We all have our own collecting fields and it is good when we have a chance to see - and learn - something new. I do have one question - how long have the German army policing units been wearing these gorgets. I was never aware of them until we had the shop - however, I have never come across earlier examples. I do appreciate that all Gorgets - British and German - are the remnants of armour and to show status officers in the 17th and 18th. C's. wore silver gorgets - with armorials - around their necks. But, how did they become so unique to the German army?

[Gordon Williamson]

Not really sure about the older history of Gorget use by Germany but I know the military police used them in World War One, so it wasn't something introduced during the 3rd Reich.

Incidentally, other nations MPs used them too. Principally Hungary, shown here

[Gordon Williamson]

And Bulgaria

[G Hanson]

Here's my GFP Wehrpass.

[G Hanson]

Served GFP Gruppe 621 in Greece.

[G Hanson]

Killed 24/7/44

[G Hanson]

Some other Police ID's, mainly Sicherheitspolizei and SD.

A: Wehrpass to Krim.O.Ass. in Gestapo Braunschweig and Einsatzgruppen member.

B: Dienstausweis & matching travel pass to Krim.Ang. in Gestapo Hannover and Einsatzgruppen member.

C: Soldbuch to Krim.Sek. in Kripo Essen.

D: Dienstausweis to Krim.Ang. Gestapo Prag.

E: Dienstausweis & matching travel pass to Krim.Ang. Kripo Karlsruhe.

F: Wehrpass to Krim.Dir. Kripo Halle/Saale.

G: Wehrpass & Dienstausweis to Zollbeamten in SiPo Vienna.

H: Soldbuch to SS-Stuscha. SiPo K?nitz.

I: Large Promotion certificate from Krim.Sek. to Krim.Ins.

J: Dienstausweis to Krim.Sek. Kripo Bromberg.

K: Soldbuch to SS-Hscha. SiPo Holland (possible Einsatzgruppen member).

L: Dienstausweis to Krim.O.Ass. Gestapo Kattowitz.

M: Ausweis to Krim.Sek. Kripo Hamburg.

N: KvK II award doc to Krim.Sek. M?nchen.

O: Dienstausweis to Hilfspolizeibeamten Kripo Hamburg.

Edited June 19, 2009 by G Hanson

[Gordon Williamson]

Some other Police ID's, mainly Sicherheitspolizei and SD.

A: Wehrpass to Krim.O.Ass. in Gestapo Braunschweig and Einsatzgruppen member.

B: Dienstausweis & matching travel pass to Krim.Ang. in Gestapo Hannover and Einsatzgruppen member.

C: Soldbuch to Krim.Sek. in Kripo Essen.

D: Dienstausweis to Krim.Ang. Gestapo Prag.

E: Dienstausweis & matching travel pass to Krim.Ang. Kripo Karlsruhe.

F: Wehrpass to Krim.Dir. Kripo Halle/Saale.

G: Wehrpass & Dienstausweis to Zollbeamten in SiPo Vienna.

H: Soldbuch to SS-Stuscha. SiPo K?nitz.

I: Large Promotion certificate from Krim.Sek. to Krim.Ins.

J: Dienstausweis to Krim.Sek. Kripo Bromberg.

K: Soldbuch to SS-Hscha. SiPo Holland (possible Einsatzgruppen member).

L: Dienstausweis to Krim.O.Ass. Gestapo Kattowitz.

M: Ausweis to Krim.Sek. Kripo Hamburg.

N: KvK II award doc to Krim.Sek. M?nchen.

O: Dienstausweis to Hilfspolizeibeamten Kripo Hamburg.

Awesome selection of exceptionally rare pieces !!

[G Hanson]

Another piece from my collection that is not pictured above.

Gestapo issued Soldbuch to a Kriminal Oberassistent.

Edited June 19, 2009 by G Hanson

[Gordon Williamson]

Now that really is something very special !

Any background on your GFP man?

I know for sure from supporting documentation that came with mine that he was in fact a member of the Gestapo and returned to the Gestapo after his stint with the GFP. I believe attachments from the various state security organs to the GFP was common.