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The attached set of Australian badges has me a little puzzled. Apart from the left collar - which has the rounded crown, more usually associated with George 5th. - and therefore, prob. WW1 - all of the others have the sharper edged crown from late Victoria and Edward 7th. Could these be Boer War ? Any help would be appreciated. The other question - did our Aussie contingents in the Boer War wear unit badges, or, the standard half sun badge ?

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The "Risnig Sun" badges are a topic in themselves, the metals, the crowns etc, let's hope an Aussie expert joins in here

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The attached set of Australian badges has me a little puzzled. Apart from the left collar - which has the rounded crown, more usually associated with George 5th. - and therefore, prob. WW1 - all of the others have the sharper edged crown from late Victoria and Edward 7th. Could these be Boer War ? Any help would be appreciated. The other question - did our Aussie contingents in the Boer War wear unit badges, or, the standard half sun badge ?

These are probably WW1 or WW2 Rising Sun badges. This pattern was first worn in 1914. Not sure about the other Boer War contingents but the Australian Horse did wear an early pattern Rising Sun badge (quite different to the WW1 and WW2 badge).

Mick

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Thanks,Mick. We had hoped to dig deeper into early Aussie badges - your info. is a help. You had better tell them what a 'chook' is ?

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Thanks,Mick. We had hoped to dig deeper into early Aussie badges - your info. is a help. You had better tell them what a 'chook' is ?

The most polite definition is a chicken. By extension a rather slow witted person, a wally. I'm assuming Mick means the former ;)

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Here's a start:

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-badges/rising_sun.htm

And my slightly beat up contribution

Edited by Laurence Strong

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Guest Darrell

Mervyn,

Here is one that was part of my Uncles stuff we sorted through a few years back.

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I think I hit the back button and not post - if two replies come-up, we know why !!

Both are similar to my idea of 'early' Aust. slouch hat badges. The one Laurence posted is very close to the ones I showed. I'm looking forward to reading the ref. link.

Tom got the 'chook' ref. - do other Countries call them this ? I think Australia is the only place in the World, where to call someone a 'bastard' is a term of affection !!!

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This is the only example I have. I was told Great War AIF cap badges are made of bronze, whereas later badges are brass. Don't know how true that is though because as Leigh mentioned, they're a topic for themselves.

Tony

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I would think this one to be WW2. I wonder about the remains of the paint ? Was it darkened in order to not show reflections - or, perhaps it originally had a 'bronzed' finish ?

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Variation on the Aust. Rising Sun badge. I wore this as a 13 year old cadet in 1949 - Geelong is Aust's. senior public school and had a large cadet corps. (Public in UK & Aust. means private). Cadet insignia is a field in it's own right and I expect this badge would be a sought after item.

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I would think this one to be WW2. I wonder about the remains of the paint ? Was it darkened in order to not show reflections - or, perhaps it originally had a 'bronzed' finish ?

After reading the above link, it appears they were also made of copper so would think that's what my one is made of. Copper badges were used from 1904 to 1949 according to digger history, so unless anyone can tell the difference between earlier and later badges, we'll probably never know when it may have been made. I'll have to add a pic of the reverse when I get round to it.

I would think it was darkened due to reflecting light and believe this was common practice with some infantry units, especially the Rifle Brigade.

Tony

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I thought perhaps, we could continue this thread on the Aust. Rising sun badge, by also including a history of our famous slouch hats ?

My first mil. service was with National Service when I was 18. I was put into the Sydney 17th. LAA (Light Anti Aircraft)Regt. and we were trained on 40mm. Bofors - I still think it was a marvellous weapon - and so versatile. When I returned in 1960 from Sth. Africa, I was in Brisbane and joined the Queensland Regt. - this hat and badge was my issue. Unfortunately, I was 'headhunted' to go to Thailand and never returned to Aust. to live.

I am very open to correction on this - but, I don't think the slouch hat origins are Australian? The Sth. African miners and on the farms, had been using this style for many years and when the Boer War broke out in 1899, most of the irregular colonial forces were outfitted with the pattern. A wonderful hat to protect the head from strong sun - when opened it gives exceptional protection from rain. I have shown the clip fitted to mine - however, some use a press stud. The puggaree is the standard fold and colour for the Aust. Infantry - or, it was at that time. When we were issued with the hat we had to put our own 'bash' in the top - this is done by soaking the top and then hitting it sharply with the side of the hand. We used clothes pegs to hold it in position and after drying it always stays in. We had to get the 'bash' just right or your Sgt. Maj. could get very unpleasant. I suppose New Zealanders and the Canadian Mounties have the same problems. Although I wouldn't be surprised to find they come now with creases pre-done...

I always wanted one of the NSW Mounted Police hats - they are in blue - if you ever hear of one for sale, please remember me....

Edited by Mervyn Mitton

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Nice headgear Mervyn and great that it's your own slouch hat.

I'm afraid I don't have a hat to show but I did pick up another cap badge, the reverse has the maker's name - Stokes & Sons, Melbourne and am hoping this one can be pinned down to being from the Great War.

Tony

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And the reverse of this week's bargain buy showing the maker.

Tony

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Thanks Mervyn.

I now need to find a Great War issue slouch hat at a bargain price and obviously one that once belonged to a Lighthorseman, with plume of course.

Tony

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To all,

If you are at all interested in Australian hat badges, as well as general issue unit badges, I would recommend that you try and locate copies of 3 very good books by the Australian author J.K. Cossum. Aside from being marvelously illustrated in black and white, these books are considered the main references for all things Australian hat badges and more.

The titles are:

a. Australian Army Badges, A Collectors Reference Guide, Part 1, 1930-1942, 35 pp

b. Australian Army Badges, A Collectors Reference Guide, Part 2, 1900-1930, 56 pp, and

c. Australian Army Badges, A Collectors Reference Guide, Part 3, 1948-1985, 64 pp.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Rob

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Thanks, Rob. I would like copies of all of them - if you have them, do they have an ISBN in the front pages. Would help to locate them. They might of course, be old books and hard to find. Mervyn.

Tony - they must come on the market - perhaps Stuart can help - he has a lot of contacts in the helmet collecting fields - drop him an IM.

I was always pleased thet I kept my Qld. Regt. one - they are quite hard to find outside of Aussie.

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Thanks, Rob. I would like copies of all of them - if you have them, do they have an ISBN in the front pages. Would help to locate them. They might of course, be old books and hard to find. Mervyn.

Tony - they must come on the market - perhaps Stuart can help - he has a lot of contacts in the helmet collecting fields - drop him an IM.

I was always pleased thet I kept my Qld. Regt. one - they are quite hard to find outside of Aussie.

Hello Mervyn,

I would agree that outside of Australia they are difficult items to find.

ISBN for volume 1 : ISBN 0949530018

ISBN for volume 2 : ISBN 0949530026

ISBN for volume 3 : ISBN 0949530050

I had all 3 volumes back in the early 1990s but have since managed to either lend them to another collector or mislaid them. A dealer friend in Sydney has all 3 volumes and has indicated, that while Mr Cossum does not intend to provide an update to the books, another publishing house and author is apparently going to attempt an update. When I have more information I will post here.

I have found copies in the past at some well known used bookstores on the web. I always use <abebooks.com> and <used.addall.com>. I think you might find them there.

A small picture from an unnamed auction house will show some detail of the book covers for vol's 1 & 2 for your reference.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Rob

Edited by RobW

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The Cossum books are now starting to get expensive and reasonably hard to find. There is a badge book in progress that will cover Australian badges post 1953 and will hopefully be out in the next month or two.

Mick

Hello Mervyn,

I would agree that outside of Australia they are difficult items to find.

ISBN for volume 1 : ISBN 0949530018

ISBN for volume 2 : ISBN 0949530026

ISBN for volume 3 : ISBN 0949530050

I had all 3 volumes back in the early 1990s but have since managed to either lend them to another collector or mislaid them. A dealer friend in Sydney has all 3 volumes and has indicated, that while Mr Cossum does not intend to provide an update to the books, another publishing house and author is apparently going to attempt an update. When I have more information I will post here.

I have found copies in the past at some well known used bookstores on the web. I always use <abebooks.com> and <used.addall.com>. I think you might find them there.

A small picture from an unnamed auction house will show some detail of the book covers for vol's 1 & 2 for your reference.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Rob

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