Mervyn Mitton Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 I'll also start another thread on general police headgear - everyone , please join in with the interesting - but more common ones. Not that this could be called 'common'. When the Metropolitan Police first 'marched out' in 1829 a lot of thought had gone into their uniform. The French Revolution was not long before and there was great fear in England of having a uniformed body of men - outside of the military. They decided to make the uniform very similar to the civilian dress of that period and the men - of any importance - wore top hats. The first pattern were larger than this one and had a swelling top - which had inside a framework of cane. The 'bright' idea was that if the constable was chasing someone, he could throw the hat down and use it as a step to climb walls. That didn't last long - they were far too heavy. Top hats continued into the 1860's when the first pattern of helmet was introduced. Some of the County Forces had a smaller hat than the Met. and I think this is one - probably dates from the 1840 - 50's period. They are very rare today and this is the only one I have ever had the chance to buy. Always bear in mind the great number of films and TV programmes that have required period dress and they do come on the market and cause confusion. They are not fakes - intended to deceive for profit - but, rather copies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted June 21, 2009 Author Share Posted June 21, 2009 An early Victorian helmet for WARWICKSHIRE. Probably 1870-80's but, I hope someone can give an accurate date. Shows the wear of years, but the fact is that today such early helmets are rare and keenly sought after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted June 21, 2009 Author Share Posted June 21, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted June 21, 2009 Author Share Posted June 21, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Symmonds Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Mervyn, as always, very interesting and informative topic. A question though; I can imagine that the first pattern top hat, the one with the cane framework, must have been heavy, but at least it had a function. I struggle to understand why the police helmet patterns that followed are, in my opinion, more decorative than functional. Even in the current day example, I would imagine it must be very difficult to run a fast hundred meters. So the question is, why the cumbersome headgear?best regardsThomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted June 21, 2009 Author Share Posted June 21, 2009 Thomas - it goes back to the 1860's. The Germans - or, at that time the Prussians - were the World leaders in Army. Great Britain was the leader with Navy. The time had come to change the original uniform of 1829 and it was decided the twin tailed 'swallow' coatee would be replaced with a tunic - based on the German one of the period. This originally came to the knees, but was later shortened. The German helmet was also adopted - by both our Police and Army. The Police still wear the helmet - or, as Leigh points out, perhaps for not much longer. The blue military helmet is still worn by some Regt's for Bands et.. Traditionally, the Army have a pointed spike for Infantry and a ball top for Artillery. Some Police Forces still wear a ball top finial to the helmet. Yes, they are heavy - and yes - they do fall off in fights and when running - although there is a chin strap which is fairly good and for riots a special double chin strap. The fact is that they are part of our history - take the helmet away - use only flat caps and everyone looks like a traffic warden Hope that answers the query ? Mervyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted June 27, 2009 Author Share Posted June 27, 2009 This hat is the pattern for the Commissioner and the Deputy Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police (London). QE2 crown. Note the double row of silver braid oak leaves on the peak.The Commissioner is Britain's most senior police officer. He is followed by Her Majesty's Inspector of Constabulary - and third , is the Dep. Comm.Chief Constables rank alonside Met. Asst. Comms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Symmonds Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Hello Mervyn. Thank you for your reply earlier, sorry I am only picking up on it now.I suppose, following on that the headgear has traditional roots, and that if one were to change to "practical designs" and as you say "use only flat caps and everyone looks like a traffic warden", the element of deterrent-by-recognition disappears too. Rather stop the crime from even happening just by being recognisable.Thank you for the lessons, Teach.best regardsThomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 Hi - Thomas. 'Teach' - indeed!!! I'll get my cousin - the Dr. , she lives in Capetown, to 'call' on you...Despite the problems of a hemet , and Leigh pointed some out - even he agreed that he liked it. Because of the height it can be seen in a crowd - there is always a collective sigh of relief when it is spotted coming through the masses of useless on-lookers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted July 5, 2009 Author Share Posted July 5, 2009 Hat for a Chief Constable - in some Forces, also for the Deputy Chief Constable. Ranks with an Asst. Commissioner in the Metropolitan Police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie770 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 A Shropshire Constabulary helmet with blackened white metal plate.The helmet has never had a different plate fitted and when the plate is (carefully!) removed the exact faded outline of the plate can clearly be seen on the cloth covering.The only thing that concerns me is that it is a two panel - all the victorian helmets I can recall handling were six panel. Does anyone know of two panel helmets used during the Victorian period? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie770 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Side view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 Jamie - the badge is a lovely design and , look to be silver. They had to change from 6 to 2 panel at some time - and helmets had so many different shapes and materials in Victorian times. The test - has to be, does it all look contemporary? Hopefully, some one else will have some examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie770 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Thanks Mervyn,Yes, it does look original and 'all-belonging' with a key feature being the clear imprint and fading around the helmet plate.Internally it has no makers markings but it is very similar to other Victorian / Edwardian helmets I have seen in that it has a dark cloth lining to the helmet (of the same texture of cloth as shown in yours) but a different, waterproof looking lining to the front, side and rear peaks.It retains the remnants of where a paper label had once been stuck to the inside of the helmet.I'd love to come across a photograph of this style of helmet in use - perhaps one day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leigh kitchen Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Perhaps it just never had the metal top fitting (spike, ball, rose, whatever) actually fitted, thereby leaving the black metal "pepper pot" top visible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted July 29, 2009 Author Share Posted July 29, 2009 Leigh made mention of the three different styles of British Police Helmets. Bell top ; Coxcomb ; and Ball top. These are the only patterns approved by the Home Office - who control all aspects of police uniform and equipment. The bell top has been shown in an earlier post by Jamie - but I will put-on the modern Met. Police. All helmets replaced the top hat - which was in use from 1829 - during the 1860's. A gradual change over, as individual forces had to get the approval of their Watch Committees. Only the Met. comes directly under the Home Sec.. The military helmets of the time were based on the German pattern - and we also copied the use of a spike for infantry and a ball top for artillery - the police ball top being a derivation of these. The coxcomb is a little harder to explain and I have always thought it was for ventilation and also, to be different. I expect it was copied from an existing military helmet and it will be good to hear other opinions. Modern helmets sell for about ?50 on the open market ($80) - however, examples such as this Hampshire one with it's attractive helmet plate will be considerably more. Please remember - under the Police Act it is illegal to own present issue police uniform. I would see no problem with items in a collection - no one has ever tried to prosecute me ! - however, if carrying them outside , put in a bag. This could be an interesting project for our Forum - I for one am not up-to-date with all of the present day Forces - could we list all the Forces in Britain - AND - show which pattern of helmet they wear. From what Leigh says this could be useful for future historians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted July 29, 2009 Author Share Posted July 29, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted July 29, 2009 Author Share Posted July 29, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted July 29, 2009 Author Share Posted July 29, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted July 29, 2009 Author Share Posted July 29, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted July 29, 2009 Author Share Posted July 29, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Jamie770 Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 Hi Mervyn, Very nice helmets there - the Hampshire is one of my favourite current issue helmets. This one with the enamelled badge is for a Sergeant, the Constables having the slightly larger purely chromed plates. The Devon helmet is also quite rare, dating from the 1960's, but pretty much exactly the same style as the current Devon and Cornwall type. The Police Memorabilia Collectors Club website has a list of the current forces along with a picture of their current helmets - a well researched webpage which would be of great interest to collectors who are starting a collection of current helmets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Dwyer Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 Don't the City of London police wear a cockscomb helmet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 Thanks - Jamie. Collectors should join one of the two Police collectors clubs - one always needs help and if the work has been done, why duplicate it. Do you perhaps know the contact details for them ? I did know the Hants. plate was for a Sgt. - but forgot to put it on - thanks for adding. Mike - the City of London do use the coxcomb helmet. With their min. height of 6 feet (do they still have that requirement?) + the helmet it makes them look very impressive. I remember one of their P.C.'s who was - I think - over 7 feet, he absoluterly 'dwarfed' us, I doubt if anyone ever gave him trouble... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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