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James Hoard

Pakistan Princely States - Bahawalpur

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OK. Thanks! I could find this link which shows a postal history of Bahawalpur which shows soldiers in similar attire though they have been placed on reverse side than what is shown in postcard. Still, as you said if postcard doesn't mention anything on back then there is no authenticity that it is official one.

http://www.fdc4all.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=58&products_id=566&zenid=f5f649071f3000b5608a90ab362b0342

Thanks for help!

That's interesting. I would have displayed the two with the oldest unifrom to the left and the latest to the right as in the book you have. I wonder it that has anything to do with those in the western world reading from left to right and languages from the middle east and far east (more or less) being read right to left.

Thanks for adding "food for thought" to this post.

Regards

Brian

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Hugh,

I found this second class Volunteer Corps Medal in an old Spinks catalogue. However, I cannot read Urdu so cannot identify which bar corresponds to which designation. Indeed, there are four bars altogether, three in silver and one in bronze. Consequently, what the fourth bar stands for remains just as mysterious.

Cheers,

James

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Hugh,

I found this second class Volunteer Corps Medal in an old Spinks catalogue. However, I cannot read Urdu so cannot identify which bar corresponds to which designation. Indeed, there are four bars altogether, three in silver and one in bronze. Consequently, what the fourth bar stands for remains just as mysterious.

Cheers,

James

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Hello, Rohee, and welcome to the forum. I've seen your two postings quoting James Hoard, but it doesn't appear that you have added anything. Since I note that you are from Lahore (a lovely city), I suspect that you may be offering to translate, for which I'm sure that James and I would be grateful.

Hope I'm right!

Hugh

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Hello Rohee,

Welcome to the GMIC.

I hope to hear more from you regarding Bahwalpur Medals as It is an interest of mine as well.

Regards

Brian

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Hello, Rohee, and welcome to the forum. I've seen your two postings quoting James Hoard, but it doesn't appear that you have added anything. Since I note that you are from Lahore (a lovely city), I suspect that you may be offering to translate, for which I'm sure that James and I would be grateful.

Hope I'm right!

Hugh

Hi Hugh,

Thanks for the welcome.

Inscription on the bars from top to bottom in urdu is;

1. Long Service. As written in urdu.

2. Shujaat. Pronounced as ( shoo, ja ut ) meaning 'Bravery'.

3. Nek Chullan. Pronounced as ( Nayk Chull un ) meaning 'Good Conduct'

4. Khidmaat-e-Husna. Singular Khidmat meaning service, plural Khidmaat meaning many services or services over a prolonged period. 'Hus-na' is the singular of ( Hoos-n ) meaning beauty / beautiful. Since it is being used for services rendered so it would mean beautiful or good services.

I live in Lahore but basically I'm from Dera Nawab Sahib, Headquarters of the Bahawalpur army and its Rulers. My father was commissioned in 1938 as an officer in 1st Bahawalpur Infantry (Sadiq Battalion), Bahawalpur State Forces. Saw active service overseas in Malaya during 2nd WW, was captured and taken prisoner of war. He was Mentioned in a Despatch for Distinguished Service and his buddy and senior Mahmood Khan Durrani, also of the same battalion, was awarded the coveted George Cross. I have pictures of jap surrender and my father as camp senior conducting a British General probably Maj Gen Roberts (not sure).

My father was also awarded ' Nishan-i-Istidaad Harbiya (the Decoration for Military Efficiency) by the HH Nawab Sir Sadiq Muhammad Khan Abbasi 5th, Ruler of Bahawalpur.

To fulfill my late fathers wish and promise made during his life time, I joined his battalion, amalgamated with Pakistan Army and renamed 8th (Abbasia) Battalion, The Baloch Regiment on commissioning from The Pakistan Military Academy in 1971, and retired in 1998. I was also conferred Tamgha-i-Imtiaz (Military), by the President of Pakistan for long, meritorious service of exemplary nature during peace and war in 1996.

This post has become and must fold for now. I'm open to any information if desired

Kind Regards

Tariq Gilani

P.S. Rohee in my native language 'Riastee' is the name of the desert that is an integral part of Bahawalpur State and has been fondly referred to by poets and sufi mystics alike.

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Hi Hugh,

Thanks for the welcome.

Inscription on the bars from top to bottom in urdu is;

1. Long Service. As written in urdu.

2. Shujaat. Pronounced as ( shoo, ja ut ) meaning 'Bravery'.

3. Nek Chullan. Pronounced as ( Nayk Chull un ) meaning 'Good Conduct'

4. Khidmaat-e-Husna. Singular Khidmat meaning service, plural Khidmaat meaning many services or services over a prolonged period. 'Hus-na' is the singular of ( Hoos-n ) meaning beauty / beautiful. Since it is being used for services rendered so it would mean beautiful or good services.

I live in Lahore but basically I'm from Dera Nawab Sahib, Headquarters of the Bahawalpur army and its Rulers. My father was commissioned in 1938 as an officer in 1st Bahawalpur Infantry (Sadiq Battalion), Bahawalpur State Forces. Saw active service overseas in Malaya during 2nd WW, was captured and taken prisoner of war. He was Mentioned in a Despatch for Distinguished Service and his buddy and senior Mahmood Khan Durrani, also of the same battalion, was awarded the coveted George Cross. I have pictures of jap surrender and my father as camp senior conducting a British General probably Maj Gen Roberts (not sure).

My father was also awarded ' Nishan-i-Istidaad Harbiya (the Decoration for Military Efficiency) by the HH Nawab Sir Sadiq Muhammad Khan Abbasi 5th, Ruler of Bahawalpur.

To fulfill my late fathers wish and promise made during his life time, I joined his battalion, amalgamated with Pakistan Army and renamed 8th (Abbasia) Battalion, The Baloch Regiment on commissioning from The Pakistan Military Academy in 1971, and retired in 1998. I was also conferred Tamgha-i-Imtiaz (Military), by the President of Pakistan for long, meritorious service of exemplary nature during peace and war in 1996.

This post has become and must fold for now. I'm open to any information if desired

Kind Regards

Tariq Gilani

P.S. Rohee in my native language 'Riastee' is the name of the desert that is an integral part of Bahawalpur State and has been fondly referred to by poets and sufi mystics alike.

Wow!!! Welcome, a thousand times welcome. It's obvious that you'll be an invaluable asset to the forum. I expect that you are about to get dozens of questions from the rest of us. Here comes the first:

In November of 1984, I was in Pakistan working with the Pakistani Army on night sights for their tanks. They had proposed operational trials with the 33rd Cavalry regiment, but we had been standing by for some time in Karachi, awaiting Army HQ approval to proceed.

On the night of Mrs. Gandhi's assassination, we got an emergency call to proceed to Bahawalpur to fit the sight in an M48 and conduct "trials". We left the next morning at 6 AM. (In fact, we were conducting surveillance of the border to see whether the Indian Army was going to move.) The operational area was right along the border, and we spent each night running up and down the border, looking across. We could see the Indian tanks clearly.

During that period, we stayed in a dak bungalow (built in 1857) inside the walls of a fort built by one of the Mughal emperors (Aurangzeb - ?) By any chance, are you able to tell me the name of the nearest town, and which Mughal it was who built the fort?

(Yes, I know it's a rather obscure question, but I'd love to know the answer. By the way, we never sold the sights for a lot of reasons which had nothing to do with how well they worked.)

Thanks,

Hugh

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Hi Hugh,

Thanks for the welcome.

Inscription on the bars from top to bottom in urdu is;

1. Long Service. As written in urdu.

2. Shujaat. Pronounced as ( shoo, ja ut ) meaning 'Bravery'.

3. Nek Chullan. Pronounced as ( Nayk Chull un ) meaning 'Good Conduct'

4. Khidmaat-e-Husna. Singular Khidmat meaning service, plural Khidmaat meaning many services or services over a prolonged period. 'Hus-na' is the plural of ( Hoos-n ) meaning beauty / beautiful. Since it is being used for services rendered so it would mean beautiful or good services.

I live in Lahore but basically I'm from Dera Nawab Sahib, Headquarters of the Bahawalpur army and its Rulers. My father was commissioned in 1938 as an officer in 1st Bahawalpur Infantry (Sadiq Battalion), Bahawalpur State Forces. Saw active service overseas in Malaya during 2nd WW, was captured and taken prisoner of war. He was Mentioned in a Despatch for Distinguished Service and his buddy and senior Mahmood Khan Durrani, also of the same battalion, was awarded the coveted George Cross. I have pictures of jap surrender and my father as camp senior conducting a British General probably Maj Gen Roberts (not sure).

My father was also awarded ' Nishan-i-Istidaad Harbiya (the Decoration for Military Efficiency) by the HH Nawab Sir Sadiq Muhammad Khan Abbasi 5th, Ruler of Bahawalpur.

To fulfill my late fathers wish and promise made during his life time, I joined his battalion, amalgamated with Pakistan Army and renamed 8th (Abbasia) Battalion, The Baloch Regiment on commissioning from The Pakistan Military Academy in 1971, and retired in 1998. I was also conferred Tamgha-i-Imtiaz (Military), by the President of Pakistan for long, meritorious service of exemplary nature during peace and war in 1996.

This post has become lengthy and must fold for now. I'm open to any information if desired.

Kind Regards

Tariq Gilani

P.S. Rohee in my native language 'Riastee' is the name of the desert that is an integral part of Bahawalpur State and has been fondly referred to by poets and sufi mystics alike.

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Wow!!! Welcome, a thousand times welcome. It's obvious that you'll be an invaluable asset to the forum. I expect that you are about to get dozens of questions from the rest of us. Here comes the first:

In November of 1984, I was in Pakistan working with the Pakistani Army on night sights for their tanks. They had proposed operational trials with the 33rd Cavalry regiment, but we had been standing by for some time in Karachi, awaiting Army HQ approval to proceed.

On the night of Mrs. Gandhi's assassination, we got an emergency call to proceed to Bahawalpur to fit the sight in an M48 and conduct "trials". We left the next morning at 6 AM. (In fact, we were conducting surveillance of the border to see whether the Indian Army was going to move.) The operational area was right along the border, and we spent each night running up and down the border, looking across. We could see the Indian tanks clearly.

During that period, we stayed in a dak bungalow (built in 1857) inside the walls of a fort built by one of the Mughal emperors (Aurangzeb - ?) By any chance, are you able to tell me the name of the nearest town, and which Mughal it was who built the fort?

(Yes, I know it's a rather obscure question, but I'd love to know the answer. By the way, we never sold the sights for a lot of reasons which had nothing to do with how well they worked.)

Thanks,

Hugh

Hi Hugh,

Can you recall the name of the fort or the dak bungalow. Also was it in the province of Sind or Punjab? I'm trying to contact an officer of 33-Cav...may be he could help.

Regards

~Tariq Gilani

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Hi Hugh,

Can you recall the name of the fort or the dak bungalow. Also was it in the province of Sind or Punjab? I'm trying to contact an officer of 33-Cav...may be he could help.

Regards

~Tariq Gilani

I didn't see or hear a name on the bungalow. A name for the fort may have been mentioned, but I certainly didn't retain it. It's my impression that we were just east of the city of Bahawalpur, perhaps 10 -20 miles.

Believe me, I fully understand that it's a trivial question, not worthy of more than five minutes consideration, but if it fell into my lap, I'd be oddly gratified.

Thanks for even thinking about it.

Best,

Hugh

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Hi guys,

Just wondered if anyone found ribbons for the Bhawalpur medals?   I am still looking.

If anyone has any now, please let me know.

Regards,

Yasser.

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Sorry, I've had no luck, even for my own missing ribbons.  I was once told that the ribbons are often more difficult to find than the medals themselves.  I can vouch for that.myself.

I hope one of the other members has had more luck, good luck in your quest Yasser.

Regards

Brian

 

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Just wondered if anyone found ribbons for the Bhawalpur medals?   I am still looking.

If anyone has any now, please let me know.

Regards,

Yasser.

 

Hi, Yasser, 

I can only refer you to my not-particularly-helpful post # 16 above, which mentioned an unnamed supplier in Birmingham, England, who at one time was selling "replica" medals with new, snappy ribbons.  The medals were not particularly expensive, so it might be worth it to just buy the medal and use the ribbon...if only someone could find the name of the supplier.  

 

Good luck,

Hugh

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Brian and Hugh,

Thank you both for your fast replies.   Birmingham supplier eh!   Hmmmm now who would that be?   Was he on eBay or had a website?

I added to my collection today a WW1 Bahawalpur star which came with a ribbon.

Also, I wonder if anyone has the attachment bar that came on some of these Bahwalpur medals.

Regards,

Yasser.

IMG_3034.JPG

Edited by Yasser

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Jeremy Tenniswood Militaria often has Bahawalpur ribbons available on his web site.  I haven't looked in a while, however.

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Hi,

i have struggled to navigate his website.  It's a rubbish design and he knows it as I spoke to him as well.   His ribbons are of mixed stock.  Mostly new repro stuff with some older Spinks made ribbons.

They are in the process of updating their website as it is not user friendly.  They aim to get this sorted in few weeks.

I hope this helps everyone in some way.

If anyone has any Pakistani medal groups or medals for sale, please let me know.

Regards,

Yasser.

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Posted (edited)

Hi Guys

I have noticed there appear to be two different versions of attachments to this medal, are they both OK  or is one a replica?

I appreciate the pictures are of the military and civilian versions but they were the first images I found.

I am referring to the part that directly attaches to the medal not the whole suspension device.

Cheers

Dave

 

Bahawalpur (2).jpg

bahawalpur3 (2).jpg

Edited by Shots Dave
clarifying

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Hoping someone else would have ideas on this.  But apparently not.  :(

While it's generally not done to shill for other sites, 'S.A. Gongs' may have the answers if you'd care to go there and join up.  It's founder is immensely knowledgeable about Indian medals, including post-47 and princely states stuff.

 

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I have realised all the Military Medals with this attachment (as above) have the wrong ribbon attached. It has a blue stripe where it should be black.

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It appears that Tony McClenaghan has 3 possible issues for this medal, where the second version has a blue stripe and the third version a black stripe. So I guess they could both be right.

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Hello to all.

One of the medal is the Military General Service Medal, and the other one the Civil general Service Medal, so if suspension differs, it was then the choice of the Amir of Bahawalpur in the early 1930ies (these medal were used on that time, and till to 1947 when Bahawalpur acceded to Pakistan....and probably, but I cannot certify it, till a bit after 1947).

Bahawalpur was a State, very prolific with its medals.

Best regards.

    Emmanuel

India Bahawalpur Military General Service Medal Type 2 obverse.jpg

India Bahawalpur Civil General Service Medal Type 2 obverse.jpg

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Hi Emmanuel

Nice to see both versions of the General Service Medal(Military & Civil) with the black stripe  This I believed to be the  2nd version until I read Tony McClenaghan's book "Indian Princely Medals" where he mentions the second type has a blue stripe and a possible 3rd type with a black stripe. I have attached a fuller picture of the version with the blue stripe and you will see that this has the slightly differing attachment to the medal as shown in my original pictures. You will notice both of your examples have the same two elements overhanging the edge of the medal itself, whereas the "blue" version is attached directly to the edge.

I have now established three versions are in existence but I cannot see that anyone other than Tony McClenaghan has mentioned this fact.

Bahawalpur (5).jpg

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