shaneos3 Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Hi All, I was wondering if anyone knew if either of these Army Para badges are real or not. Accepted versions have a different pin but Foremans book shows what seems to be an identical badge to these. Any comments appreciated. Regards, Shaneos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKeating Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 This are fakes of the Type 2 Army Parachutist Badge struck by C E Juncker in .800 silver as a retail 'upgrade' for men who could prove their entitlement to the badge. Like the aluminium badges, there were three types: the Type 1, the so-called transitional type resulting from an attempt to rework the dies in the area of the eagle's talons, and the Type 2, which had a completely different eagle mounted on a wreath struck on the same dies as previously. They were engraved with the recipient's details: name, rank and the number of his award document or his parachutist licence. They were also engraved with the unit details. I once had a Type 1 aluminium badge engraved by Juncker in the style of its silver counterpart, which features on the cover of Eric Queen's book Red Shines The Sun. The 1st Edition of Forman shows a fake. The 3rd Edition of Forman shows the 'transitional' silver badge named to Karl Büttner. In Büttner's case, the badge was engraved with his parachutist licence number, which was 68, rather than the number on his award document, which was 53. The pin is clearly a replacement. Given that there are less than twenty known original silver Fallschirmschützenabzeichen (H) in collections, there being twelve when Eric produced his book and a few more discovered since, the chances of finding one in the hands of a dealer or an eBay vendor are extremely slim. Moreover, the only firm that supplied the Army Para Badge during the Third Reich era was C E Juncker, in 1937/38 and 1943/44. If you're looking at a badge that does not confirm precisely to a known original, then it is a fake. PK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneos3 Posted September 13, 2009 Author Share Posted September 13, 2009 Thank-you very much PKeating for a most comprehensive reply. That answers all my questions-and some I hadn't even thought of. Regards, Shaneos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKeating Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 A pleasure. Here, for eye candy purposes, are the three basic types of Army Para Badge: Type 1, the Type 2b, with the thicker wreath, and the Type 3 in feinzink, supplied to the OKH after the restitution of the badge on 1.6.1943. The same dies were used throughout for the wreaths, while the diving eagles of the Type 2 and Type 3 were struck on the same dies. The increase in thickness of the wreath in 1938 was evidently achieved by adding a shim of sorts. PK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKeating Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 This is a rough but illuminating snapshot of the "transitional" type, a Type 1 whose eagle has deformed talons as a result of an ill-fated attempt to revise the dies as breakage in this area during the hand-finishing process was quite a problem. It is surprising that a high end firm like C E Juncker allowed these out into circulation but wonders never cease. Not only did some aluminium "transitional" badges find their way through the system into the hands of members of the Fallschirm-Infanterie-Kompanie and Fallschirm-Infanterie-Bataillon but several men who ordered the engraved silver versions received these too before the firm simply revised the diving eagle. If an Army Para Badge you are looking at does not conform exactly to the relevant type shown here, it is a fake. PK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Wow -- what a beautiful trio! Forgive me for asking Posper, but what the heck is your avitar about? It's downright creepy... :ninja: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
equeen Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 You can get these fakes in "new" or "worn" condition and can even have them made with your name on them......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nesredep Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Hello! Interesting thread. All the best Nesredep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 What's the website where you found the repros above please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKeating Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 I think the screenshot posted by Eric came from a www.gunbroker.com auction some time ago. I think I will start a rogues' gallery of fake Army Para Badges, since people are still getting clipped by the various fakes in circulation out there. Keep an eye on the relevant Heer badges section. PK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Temple-West Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 I think I will start a rogues' gallery of fake Army Para Badges, since people are still getting clipped by the various fakes in circulation out there. Keep an eye on the relevant Heer badges section. PK Good idea, PK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nesredep Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Good idea, PK Hello! I agree. All the best Nesredep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
equeen Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 http://www.soldat.com/Juwelier%20Qual%20Repro.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Temple-West Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 http://www.soldat.com/Juwelier%20Qual%20Repro.htm Thanks for taking the time, Eric. Link # 1....Any more out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Darrell Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 http://www.soldat.co...ual%20Repro.htm There's a guy on WAF that has been selling those OL&S&D in Silver and Gold versions (as reproductions). I wonder if he's the same guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob wirtz Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 How does this one match up? This was awarded to Objager Wigstein Stabs II F.J.R.1. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob wirtz Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 More photos: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob wirtz Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 More details: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
equeen Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 As real as the day I sold it to Bill Shea. What does the 206 tell us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKeating Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Just a side note: that is a Type 2a, with the same wide hinge configuration as the Type 1 badges. The Type 2b was struck on the same dies but had a thicker wreath with minor detail changes, including the hinge layout and the pin. I'll leave the question regarding '206' open. Bob: do you mind if I use this alongside other Type 2a badges in the guide I am putting together over in the Heer section? http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=40262 PK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob wirtz Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 PK, These came off of Bill Shea's website --- this badge is currently for sale. I would ask his permission. I have his permission to use pictures off of his website for my own uses; however, I would ask him for yourself. I'm sure that he would agree --- especially in the name of educating the collectors. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKeating Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 It's OK. I found I had some on file. Thanks, PK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallschirmjager Posted April 27, 2010 Share Posted April 27, 2010 the 206 means he was the 206th man to receive the para award following jump training! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallschirmjager Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 (edited) p.s. the 'creepy' avitar is a 10 para DZ flash and wings and german jump wings on a DPM para smock.... Edited August 5, 2010 by fallschirmjager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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