Wiederholungsspange

[Wild Card]

Gentlemen,

Over the years I have seen seemingly endless discussions about genuine and fake 1870 Iron Cross Wiederholungsspange

or “repeater bars”. Rather than get into all of that again, I would like to pose a few questions regarding them -

1. How were they awarded? Would it have been a situation similar to the awarding/receiving of an Iron Cross where

an actual piece was presented?

2. If so, where did these pieces come from?

3. Or... did the recipient receive some sort of document which authorized them to obtain their own piece?

4. Has anyone ever seen any documents related to the awarding of these bars?

Any information will be appreciated,

Wild Card

[Tim Tezer]

I'm kind of surprised nobody has responded to this. The answer to your questions are:

1) No.

2) Not applicable, as they were not awarded.

3) Yes.

4) I don't recall seeing one, but I'm not much of a document guy.

Hope that helps.

[Wild Card]

Hi Tim Tezer,

Thank you for your answers to my questions - very helpful indeed. I too was surprised by the total absence of response,

especially when considering all of the debate that has taken place over the years regarding originals and fakes. Interestingly,

after posting it here and letting five days pass without any action, I posted it on another forum where it actually generated

quite a bit of interest and discussion. Go figure.

Anyway, the general consensus pretty much confirms your answers; which to me raises another question. If -

1. An actual piece, as in the case of an Iron Cross was not awarded and,

2. The recipient received some sort of document which authorized them to to obtain their own piece.

Does this not open the position that “original” pieces could, or could have, come from Godet, Wagner or Wiederholungsspangen ‘R Us?

Just wondering. Thanks again Tim Tezer,

Wild Card

[Tim Tezer]

Hi Tim Tezer,

Does this not open the position that “original” pieces could, or could have, come from Godet, Wagner or Wiederholungsspangen ‘R Us?

Wild Card

Absolutely. The consensus is that Wagner was the primary maker - although there are undoubtedly huge numbers of fakes out there that SAY Wagner on the back, even if they were not made by Wagner. Godet probably made some as well, and who knows how many other makers. The problem is that they are so small that it is impossible to put together a typology using period photos from catalogs or anything like that.

The desire among collectors is to pin down the one absolutely "correct" original type and rule all others as merely questionable copies or outright fakes. With these, that's not possible. There is no black and white - only gray. Personally I tend to look at pieces that are mounted on medal bars, then judge the medal bar as a whole to decide whether I believe it or not. From that, you can narrow it down to a small number of "original" types. You have to recognize that there may be other period types that don't happen to show up on any medal bars, or you might just make an error in judgment about the originality of the bars, so it's not a foolproof approach.

I don't have one in my collection, so any conclusions I have come to so far have cost me nothing.

Tim

[NavalMark]

I just want to repeat my post, already posted in the parallel thread in the WAF.

There are a lot of facts, published in "Orden & Ehrenzeichen" Nr.5, 7 and 17, the magazin of the german order collectors society BDOS.

The Generalordenskommission send a telegram to the recepient and to the unit of the recepient, the Spange was send by post from the Generalordenskommission. Thats a fact, there are several Uebersendungsschreiben published.

The unit had to write and seal a Besitzzeugnis, until now only one is known from the Train-Abteilung 10.

The clasp itself was made by Wagner, Kaiser Wilhelm chosed the awarded design from three different samples Wagner produced for choice. The GOK got the order to buy the clasps from Wagner and to distribute them, but no general documents from GOK or even Verleihungsurkunden are known beside the one mentioned above.

Regards

NavalMark