Turkey Zigzag mark

[palencia]

Hi, Recently I have bought this Medjidie Order and in the back, besides the Darphane-i Amire and the silver hallmark,

there is a mark in zigzag: does someone know which is the meaning of this mark?

Also I would like to know your opinion on this Medjidie order: I believe that it's authentic,

but lately I'm a bit paranoiac with the fakes.

Best regards

[Guest Rick Research]

That looks to me like somebody simply savagely scratched it to see what the base metal looks like under the patina-- and recently enough that it has not "healed."

I've never understood exactly what "fineness" the Ottoman silver was, since it always looks a sort of unattractive tin-like gray which never tarnishes coal black the way 800 and higher silver will, nor does it polish (not that we would WANT to! ) shiny.

[Josef Rietveld]

This scratch is vermy common amongst imperial ottoman decorations and is called tremolierstrich. It álso wellknown for other countries silverware.

Always exciting to find, among its other marks is a Tremolierstrich assay or alderman's mark: a zigzag line left when a small quantity of metal was scraped away to test for silver purity. Since pieces which did not come up to standard were scrapped, the zigzag (or zick zack) line became a guaranty of quality

Source

regards Josef

[Guest Rick Research]

Rather a naive "guaranty" when all a Bad Person would have to do is make a scratch himself! :cheeky:

[demir]

Hi,

The quality is the silver is tested by the Ottoman Mint ( Darphane-i Amire ) by getting a sample from the silver base.

That is the reason of that scratch.

The order is orignal not fake as far a I see from th picture.

Please look at the small sign (sah / shah) (meaning: pure) (silver hallmark) on the star under the red crescent suspension piece. You will see this sign time to time on the obverse, but usually reverse. This has it on both sides.

Your second picture shows The "Darphanei Amire" and on top smaller "Sah" (shah) hallmarks.

demir

Edited October 26, 2009 by demir

[palencia]

Thanks to all for your answers.

Then, in short, this order has three silver purity marks

Regards

Enrique

[demir]

That looks to me like somebody simply savagely scratched it to see what the base metal looks like under the patina-- and recently enough that it has not "healed."

I've never understood exactly what "fineness" the Ottoman silver was, since it always looks a sort of unattractive tin-like gray which never tarnishes coal black the way 800 and higher silver will, nor does it polish (not that we would WANT to! ) shiny.

Hi Rick,

I think in the Mecidi Order case the dullness of the silver base give the shiny buds diamond look from a distance.

[Josef Rietveld]

as addition. an tremolierstrich on an austrian fork hallmarked vienna 1786

josef

[mahoni]

Hi there,

as far as I know that zig zag srcatch mark is a common on Turkish orders and that is how they tested the silver content of the piece.

it was taken and tested by Ottomant mint. By the way your Medjidie order looks fine.

Regards

[avsaribar]

Dear Palencia ,

I just wish to give some more interesting information , by the way , all the info which you and other friends mentioned are right.

You order is %100 Original 4th Class Medjidie Order , just as known , must have a red ribbon with green lined , can see the green lines on the button , probably you ribbon is

also original i just becomes tired because of the years.. Hope you know , that button on your ribbon , mentioned a higher rank of this 4th class order in the other recipients of the 4th (same class).

First of all , that zigzag is made by mint to check the purity of the silver , they was taking the silver dust with making that zigzag and testing it.

It has a style of that zigzag , i mean as it looks like a simple zigzag , but it is not , a new made zigzag can be understood very easily from a professional eyes..

The other stamp which can be seen on the back and on the front up is called "SAH" stamp , which is started to stamped on the items by Ottoman Empire after the year 1844.

This stamp is made of Arabian "S" and "H" letters (In Ottoman Alphabet) , "SAH" comes from the word "SAHiH" which means "REAL" .

In some Medjidie orders you can see only one "sah" stamp , even there are examples without it , and it is interesting , there are some examples with only a "sah" stamp on the back ,

without Ottoman Mint mark...

All the best ,

Avsar Ibar

Ibar Jewellery and Antiques

[palencia]

Avsar, Thanks for your excellent explanation

Hope you know , that button on your ribbon , mentioned a higher rank of this 4th class order in the other recipients of the 4th (same class).

Then the rosette, like in the French Legion of honor, creates two subclasses (knight, officier) within the Medjidie Order fourth class?

Regards

[Josef Rietveld]

Avsar, Thanks for your excellent explanation

Then the rosette, like in the French Legion of honor, creates two subclasses (knight, officier) within the Medjidie Order fourth class?

Regards

Not really. 5th Class has a silver center medaillon (thugra), the 4th Class and the classes above an golden center disc. IMHO though the rosette ist often seen with medjidie-ordes it makes no phaleristic sense. Using rosettes to differ 4th and 5th Class is much more logical

when in comes to the osmanie-order.

josef