Forgot your password?
Or sign in with one of these services
Wild Card, December 18, 2005 in Germany: Imperial: The Orders, Decorations and Medals of The Imperial German States
And here is a Silver Military Merit Medal (1821-1832) also from Hessen-Kassel.
Hi Wild Card
I see you even have the one established by my favourite Kurf?rst (Wilhelm II.) magnificent pieces. Are the ribbons original as well? Although the recipientslist for the 1821-1832 version of the Cross was not published, I can get you the list for the others. You can find the 1840 one here:
Kurhessian Staatshandbuch 1840
The upcoming statistical studies book by the late Eric Ludvigsen includes exact data on how many of the W?rttemberg "Feldz?ge" Medals were awarded, as well as how many wre for each specific year-- all from an 1868 reference book. :rolleyes:
How late were they awarded?
I think I have posted this chap before-an old Prussian @ 1875 who had his picture taken in Washington D.C., USA.
Bavarian Campaign Cross for 1813 & 1814:
Very worn Brunswick Peninsula Medal for Enlisted Men - Replaced suspension:
Hannover Medal for 1813 Volunteers - Instituted 1841:
Mecklenburg-Schwerin Decoration for 1808-1815 - Instituted 1841:
:Cat-Scratch: What CHARACTER! I can imagine the old warriors like the one posted by my esteemed cousin above, decades and decades of wear, care, and wear-and-tear! Looks like you've got an amazingly high proportion of wearers' lifetimes RIBBONS too-- which is amazing. :cheers:
I've always preferred a tatter of original ribbon over a nice new replacement any time.
Here is my small contribution.
The first 3 medals were already shown in the own threads, but here is the right place for them
WALDECK: Campaign Medal 1813
WALDECK: Campaign Medal 1813 14 15
Brunswick Waterloo Medal named to Carl Schoenemann, Av. Garde
Kingdom of Westphalen
Silberne Ehrenmedaille, 2nd. model
The King was Jerome (= Hieronymus in German) Napoleon, the youngest brother of Napoleon. He was known in Germany as "K?nig Lustik" - King funny or merry. It was said, that "lustik" (the right spelling is "lustig") was the only German word he was able to speak, but that is a myth.
This is an absolutely terrific overview. I've moved it down into the Napoleonic Subforum so this does not get buried under 1918 Wound Badges and the other late Imperial era stuff.
I really had no idea that so many of you were collecting awards from this far back-- there is so much going on that if you would like to post INDIVIDUAL threads on each state's awards, that might be a good idea to develop topics in more depth.
I'm fascinated--but OUT of my depth. :cheers:
Thank you for posting numbers 88 and 89. With all of the forgeries of these medals that we constantly see of these medals,
your offerings are like a breath of fresh air.
I notice that your examples have different ribbons. For the benefit of the membership, could you tell us which one is correct?
Again, thank you and Best Wishes,
This is an absolutely terrific overview. I've moved it down into the Napoleonic Subforum so this does not get buried under 1918 Wound Badges and the other late Imperial era stuff.I really had no idea that so many of you were collecting awards from this far back-- there is so much going on that if you would like to post INDIVIDUAL threads on each state's awards, that might be a good idea to develop topics in more depth.I'm fascinated--but OUT of my depth.
I'm fascinated--but OUT of my depth.
I agree with your comments but would like to offer some additional points.
With regard to ?...so this does not get buried under 1918 Wound Badges and the other late Imperial era stuff.?,
I know exactly what you mean. I just took a look at ?the other forum? and under the Imperial German section,
seven of the current first ten threads are dedicated to Iron Crosses. I think that this situation has been allowed
to happen because their membership lost many who had a lot more than Iron crosses to offer; but gave up
because of a general lack of interest beyond Iron Crosses.
One of the main reasons that I started this thread was strictly Germanic in it?s intent. Refer to a quote from my
introduction in post #1, ?We often feel a comfort level by concentrating on World War I and then, to varying
degrees over time, work our way back through the Colonial and African campaigns to the Franco-Prussian War;
but rarely go further than the war of 1866.
The Napoleon era awards reflect things that were to come. Some of the states and entities of that time (Anhalt-K?then,
Hangover, Hessen-Kassel...) no longer existed, as such, by 1870; but their influence often lived on. From here, we work
our way forward - it is hard to know where you are going, if you don?t know where you have been.?
Beyond that, look at the number of World War I awards that have roots going back to the Napoleon era. From the
Napoleonic era to 1918, physical changes took place that help us to date an award. Aside from being an interesting
area of collecting by itself the information gained can be useful. For instance, the medal of the Baden Military Karl
Friedrich Merit Order had no less than eight different models between 1810 and 1918 and the Bavarian military merit
medal had about five different models from 1794 to 1818.
Now why would this type of information be useful to us? We have seen two excellent examples in the most recent
Thies auction. The first case is a beautiful 1870 era Saxon medal bar (lot #1841) with a St. Henry knight?s badge
that would look a bit weird to many collectors, who might dismiss it as privately made piece or a bad copy. Of course,
it was a reissued or left over Napoleon era piece.
An even better example involves an 1870?s era Baden medal bar. One of the more mundane medals on the bar is
a Baden combat service medal with the 1848 and 1870-71 bars (lot #65) from Eric Ludvigsen?s collection. One of
our fellow forum members had the good sense to look at the reverse of the medal and found it to be one of he super
rare 1848 medals with the recipient?s name on the reverse - nice going fellow Forum member!
I am just trying to say that a well rounded knowledge of imperial German orders and decorations does not begin
around 1900; and it makes more sense to start at the beginning and go forward than start at the end and go back.
True enough. Just thought it would be neater and easier to literally FIND these items in this section than in Imperial German as a whole, where they are submerged in (and buried by) the majority of WW1 era posts. The same applies to British, where this time-specific sort of post gets lost in the modern campaigns.
All part of the never-ending process of rationalizing organization in the hope of making things easier to locate, given the oddities of the "search" function. Imperial German has grown ( ) quite large and cumbersome, yet we really cannot keep dividing into new sub-forums.
So if this is MORE confusing rather than LESS it can easily be switched back again.
Eitze,Thank you for posting numbers 88 and 89. With all of the forgeries of these medals that we constantly see of these medals, your offerings are like a breath of fresh air.I notice that your examples have different ribbons. For the benefit of the membership, could you tell us which one is correct?Again, thank you and Best Wishes, Wild Card
Hello Wild Card,
I can only repeat what I already said in the "Waldeck-thread":
The ribbon on the 1813 medal seems to be old; but I don`t know if it is original.
But what I know is, that the order of colours on this ribbon is wrong.
The correct order is shown on the "1813-14-15" medal: Red - Black - Gold !!!
About forgeries - I asked Gerd Efler (author of the Waldeck-Book) about the medals before I bid and he advived me not to bid on them
But I couldn`t resist and was lucky. They fulfill all criteria he wrote in his book about genuine pieces !!!
I have to say-that Westphalian medal is absolutely superb!!!
I seem to recall that the Westphalian Court Handbook had a small list of these recipients?
God knows what percentage went into the mud in the Beresina or are in a mass grave at Borodino.
I`ve got a copy of the Court Handbook for 1811 and the only persons listed are those, who were decorated with the different classes of the "Order of the Westphalian Crown" and foreign orders. But no medal listing - perhaps in the later issues ?
Here`s my latest; just received today.
A well worn medal for members of the King`s German Legion.
Now to get a ribbon!
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Already have an account? Sign in here.