OvBacon Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 This is for sale on an ebay like site.., anyone any idea of its quality? Ramon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schießplatzmeister Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 This is for sale on an ebay like site.., anyone any idea of its quality? Ramon Hello Ramon: There appear to be no problems with this group. It appears to probably have belonged to a Leutnant who had received a field-grade promotion during the war. He also probably didn't survive to apply for his Hindenburg Cross and have it added to the group. Best regards, "SPM" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 (edited) I don't know if you have noticed, but it's a tuxedo/civilian court mounted bar (in German Frackspange). The order of the decorations is accetable for a bar put together in the 20ies-early 30ies, according the Saxon fashion to wear first their "National" awards in front of the others awards of the other German states. Ciao, Claudio Edited January 19, 2010 by Claudio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OvBacon Posted January 19, 2010 Author Share Posted January 19, 2010 Hello Ramon: There appear to be no problems with this group. It appears to probably have belonged to a Leutnant who had received a field-grade promotion during the war. He also probably didn't survive to apply for his Hindenburg Cross and have it added to the group. Best regards, "SPM" Wow.. impressive how you guy's do this... So any indication on its rough value.... (I know I know, what someone is willing to pay;) R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 The ribbons are way too 'fresh' looking for my taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dond Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 Perhaps, but how often would a frack bar be worn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OvBacon Posted January 20, 2010 Author Share Posted January 20, 2010 I've asked for better photo's of the medals and Hallmark's if present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 Based upon the original images, I see no problem with this bar. Looks like a classic Saxon Jr. officer, bumped up war-time from the ranks, retired ca. 1920. The Civilian style bar is in proper sequence/precedence for a Saxon. The absence of the Honor Cross (Combattant) and the presence of the Vet. medal dates it somewhere between 1920 and 1933/34 -ish... The ribbon folding from what I can see is consistent across the bar and consistent with saxon-style folding I have handled over the years. I would buy it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OvBacon Posted January 20, 2010 Author Share Posted January 20, 2010 Based upon the original images, I see no problem with this bar. Looks like a classic Saxon Jr. officer, bumped up war-time from the ranks, retired ca. 1920. The Civilian style bar is in proper sequence/precedence for a Saxon. The absence of the Honor Cross (Combattant) and the presence of the Vet. medal dates it somewhere between 1920 and 1933/34 -ish... The ribbon folding from what I can see is consistent across the bar and consistent with saxon-style folding I have handled over the years. I would buy it! Any idea of what kind of a price rage it is worth?... just a ball park estimate is fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudius Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 The ribbons are way too 'fresh' looking for my taste. I would put the black light on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hunter Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 Gents, This thread is becoming an interesting read with some contrasting opinions. I am still learning about medal bars so will not give my opinion on this particular piece, but would like to know; these "tuxedo bars" were read from right to left? So the Saxon Order is the "first" on this bar? My thanks Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudius Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 Gents, This thread is becoming an interesting read with some contrasting opinions. I am still learning about medal bars so will not give my opinion on this particular piece, but would like to know; these "tuxedo bars" were read from right to left? So the Saxon Order is the "first" on this bar? My thanks Matt Yes, tuxedo bar, civilian bar, but the best term is frackspange or "frack bar" all read from Right to Left. The bar was originally made to be worn on a civilian coat or tuxedo and because of how a lapel would drape, they post them in reverse order so that they can be "read" properly. Now, add to that, for a period after the war (1920s-33), some of the rules as to the correct order were bent or broken. The saxon awards shouldn't be before the EK2, however this gent was proud of his State and perhaps he mixed a lot in Saxon social circles. I'm not sure how to interpret your mentioning "you are still learning about medal bars so will not give my opinion" then the . If you know something, or can point out something that we didn't notice. Please speak up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hunter Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 (edited) Yes, tuxedo bar, civilian bar, but the best term is frackspange or "frack bar" all read from Right to Left. The bar was originally made to be worn on a civilian coat or tuxedo and because of how a lapel would drape, they post them in reverse order so that they can be "read" properly. Now, add to that, for a period after the war (1920s-33), some of the rules as to the correct order were bent or broken. The saxon awards shouldn't be before the EK2, however this gent was proud of his State and perhaps he mixed a lot in Saxon social circles. I'm not sure how to interpret your mentioning "you are still learning about medal bars so will not give my opinion" then the . If you know something, or can point out something that we didn't notice. Please speak up. Thank you for this concise explanation Claudius. As for my other comment about not giving my opinion:- what i mean is i do not know much about medal bars yet to give an opinion. But i must say from reading different threads here on this forum my knowledge increases each day! So i will have a go at giving my opinion now... Regarding this bar, i think the ribbons look very clean but Dond's comment on a frack bar getting very little wear is something to consider here. I agree with Claudius about the black-light. This will reveal the answer as to originallity. Do not worry chaps, if there was something i knew or felt valid not already mentioned i would of course throw it into the ring as part of the discussion! Kind regards Matt Edited January 20, 2010 by M Hunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OvBacon Posted January 25, 2010 Author Share Posted January 25, 2010 Here is a somewhat disappointing photo of the back.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 No obvious problems with the Albert Order. Ask him to check the bottom arm, bottom edge. That's normally where you'll find a hallmark. No hallmark doesn't make the cross bad. Check and see if he has black-lighted the ribbons. If not, ask him if he gurantees the piece original/period bar. If it fails a blacklight test, simply return it for a refund. I have seen no shortage of minty-clean bars over the years. Yes, there's a ton of newly-made bars being circulated; how many have you seen with actual orders on them? If you price it strictly on the value of the individual awards, my best guess would be you're safe in the $5-600 range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 500-600 USD? So much? My calculations: SA2X USD 300.- FAM USD 40.- EK USD 50.- Deutsche Ehrendenkmünze des Weltkrieges mit Kampfabzeichen der Ehrenlegion USD 20.- Total USD 410.- max. 450.- and I am being generous! Claudio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OvBacon Posted January 25, 2010 Author Share Posted January 25, 2010 500-600 USD? So much? My calculations: SA2X USD 300.- FAM USD 40.- EK USD 50.- Deutsche Ehrendenkmünze des Weltkrieges mit Kampfabzeichen der Ehrenlegion USD 20.- Total USD 410.- max. 450.- and I am being generous! Claudio But what about the back of the SA2X, the crown bleeds into the shield.... is that a common anomaly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Hi Claudio, I will buy every Albert Order, Second Class with Swords that you can supply me in this condition without a case for the price you mention... Please PM me if you have them available. Thanks. regarding the defect on the reverse. It's a defect, it's not a fake. My 2 cents, for what it's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 In fact... I'll buy every one you can supply cased for $400, I'm open to any similar offers for any grade of the Albert Order. Thanks!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 more to compare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Rick is correct, the cases by themselves are now selling for 150.00 USD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 ... and yes, I know the Albert on the bar does not match the images I have shown. The majority of the Albert Orders I have owned over the years were Scharffenberg. This piece is probably Rossner or Glaser. Was there a mark on the bottom arm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OvBacon Posted January 27, 2010 Author Share Posted January 27, 2010 ... and yes, I know the Albert on the bar does not match the images I have shown. The majority of the Albert Orders I have owned over the years were Scharffenberg. This piece is probably Rossner or Glaser. Was there a mark on the bottom arm? Not getting any reply on that question from the seller.... His communicative skills are very spotty to say the least. R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 Well, whether good or bad, if he doesn't communicate I'd steer clear. That's just not sound buying practices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jshorter Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Here is my new baby. It should arrive early next week... Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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