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While the one with crown and swords appears more porous and almost “mushy” to the point that I fear that

if left in a glass of water for a couple of days, it would dissolve rather than rust. So, the question is - which

is zinc and which is war metal?

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While the one with crown and swords appears more porous and almost "mushy" to the point that I fear that

if left in a glass of water for a couple of days, it would dissolve rather than rust. So, the question is - which

is zinc and which is war metal?

From my knowledge of zinc - number 1 is zinc - number 2 looks like war metal wich is basically anything they can throw into a melt pot

the mushiness would come from metals with different properties being combined in a somewhat crude way

btw war metal is back - seen a lot of electronics from china using that type of thrown together material!!!

war metal is nice term used for a country running out of raw materials for anything - especially metal (zinc had a lot of uses near the end in 1918 hence using any junk for what they deemed as not critical applications!

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Why is he doing that to those crosses!! :banger:

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemnext&item=140404534060.html

Plague on him..

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Why is he doing that to those crosses!! :banger:

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemnext&item=140404534060.html

Plague on him..

Because an ignorant person and their cash are easily parted!! :speechless:

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Because an ignorant person and their cash are easily parted!! :speechless:

For those of us newer collectors please explain the issues with that cross - I am many others would be greatly interested in hearing!

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For those of us newer collectors please explain the issues with that cross - I am many others would be greatly interested in hearing!

Briefly, a very poor home-made cross.

According to my knowledge there was not a single one awarded during war. Taking into account that the 3rd form had been awarded since 1913 the Bavarians had only few months to award someone. I saw somewhere that there were some 468 awarded on the ribbon for officials but I doubt this is correct. Maybe some more experienced elders here could confirm the number of awards without swords per class.

In this case at least the correct peace-time ribbon was used.

And regarding the seller...check this topic, some interesting reading there: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=29934

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Ok I understand the lack of swords for the type - but how can you tell the whole medal is homemade?

I look at it and compare with mvk's of my own and the actual body looks ok along with the enamel!

I really would love to get a show and tell thing going for the community - similiar to the really nice 1870 EK one on medalnet!

From my standpoint one of the best ways to end fraud is to expose and drive out - the more people know the less these people can survive!

(I would never do WW2 medals - seems like almost all of them are bad fakes!)

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A 1905-1913 2nd Class (the 1st Class had enameled centers). This one is marked "900GH" between the arms. The medallions have separately applied devices.

Here is the 1st class version.

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Here is the 1st class version.

Case says it's a 2nd class.

I'd rather say this is a 2nd class from 3rd modell than a 1st class of 2nd modell... ?

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Case says it's a 2nd class.

I'd rather say this is a 2nd class from 3rd modell than a 1st class of 2nd modell... ?

An excellent observation Saschaw, thank you.

Actually, I had intended to see if anyone caught this, and if not; I was going to post some further information

this weekend. Since you caught it though, I will continue now with “the rest of the story”.

I purchased this piece from Eric Ludvigsen over ten years ago. Whatever it is, I think that we can all agree that

it is not an ordinary cross. So what was Eric’s opinion on it? Here are my notes on his observations -

“Because this is a real silver (Hmk’d GH 900) piece, it is surely one of the first group of 30 awarded on 30 Dec. 1913,

birthday of King Ludwig III. Up to 26 July 1915, 177 were awarded after which swds were added.”

This would make it a 2nd class, 2nd type, as awarded 1913-1915. This would tend to indicate that subsequent

pieces were not of “900” silver. I might add that Nimmergut’s magnum opus refers to the 30 pieces being awarded

the king’s 1913 birthday. While we continue to await the publication of the ultimate reference on this order, I welcome

any opinions and comments, and thank you again Saschaw.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

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What do you guys think about this medal bar?

Honestly I'm lost when I see a cross without swords. Is it supposed to be 2. form of 1st class or 3. form of 2nd class? To me it looks like 3rd form 2. class. How many awards were there without swords (3rd form)? Does anyone have some number?

These are the numbers I have collected over the past years but I think only the number of awards during WW1 (w/ swords) is close to reality.

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Thanks for your kind words, Wild Card.

According to OMM 41, and avadski gives the same numbers, there was a total of 59 pre-war awards of MVK 2nd modell, 2nd class - as yours one should be of. (by the way, congratulations!)

I want to add that the 177 awarded without swords, on war merit ribbon to Beamte etc., had the swords not added necessarily. They wearers were allowed to add and we can assume most did - unlikely all of them.

What do you guys thiink abiut this medal bar?

Great one! MVK 2nd class, 2nd modell... but I think I've seen the bar before and heard something even more special about it... ???

:whistle:

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Great one! MVK 2nd class, 2nd modell... but I think I've seen the bar before and heard something even more special about it... ???

:whistle:

I had the name of the owner years ago but unfortunarley I lost it. All I know it must have been a Wachtmeister or Feldwebel from Braunschweig, this is all I remember. I got the group about 10 or 12 years ago for really extremely small money at a German medal show in Illingen. Maybe somebody of the medal bar experts can trace it, would be great, many thx in advance.

I would think it was awarded 1913/14 just before WW1, maybe the winner was a member of an official Braunschweig delegation visiting Bavaria? The body of the medal is markew G.H., no silver mark but I have never seen the backside as the medal is sewn on and I do not want to cut it off.

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War time - Lauer, Hemmerle, Leser, Deschler, Weiss

Postwar - Godet, S&L

I'm not aware of any other.

Lauer from Nurnberg is a relative rare mark maker, here is a Bavarian cross with crown from this maker:

000BAVARIABARNCO7.jpg

000BAVARIABARNCO8.jpg

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And this is my Bavarian cross II class from Gebrude Hammerle marked with GH on swords.

Owner a brave NCO.

@Avadski

Is this the medal Bar you was looking for? rolleyes.gif

000BAVARIABARNCO4.jpg

000BAVARIABARNCO6-1-1.jpg

Edited by Emanuel

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