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    Mystery Coat of Arms


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    Not military, but I think this is the best forum for it. :jumping:

    Here's a puzzle box I just picked up. It dates from Arts & Crafts (c. 1900). The date refers to the accession of Richard III (I think).

    Question is............what is the coat of arms???

    Any help appreciated! :cheers:

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    1483... the year martin Luther was born.... yet... the popes hat is at the top!

    Luther cuts away at catholic dogma....

    only 3 reindeer instead of 8????? Lets assume these 3 are Dasher, Donner and Blitzen....

    Where are Dancer, Prancer, Vixen, Comet and Cupid?

    Does this mean that strong Lutheren faith will be martial (Dasher, Donner, Blitzen)? Will a laid back live and let live philosophy be replaced by a tyranny Leaning towards being Anti Gay (Dancer and Prancer), Anti Loose women (Vixen), against extra terrestrial (Comet) and against love (Cupid)....

    Did the pope kill the happy five... or did Luther wish them away?

    I think that lid may solve all of lifes riddles if interpreted right...... :ninja:

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    There are keys there... as in "this is the key!"....

    And they are under a crown.... NEXT to the reindeer... but under the pope...

    So... Under the influence of the pope, the British Monarch will be influenced to sett all gears in mothion, to find the key to Santas missing reindeer?

    Naaah... cant be....

    Didnt the royals kill catholic priests back in those days...?

    And did British Santas even HAVE reindeer???? I think not.....

    This DOES become confusing...... :banger:

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    Didn't the royals kill Catholic priests back in those days...?

    They killed everyone they could lay their delicate little hands on, even other royals.

    The princes in the tower met their maker at the hands of this chap in 1483.

    Popular year, that one.

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    I am pretty sure the hat indicates it is the arms of an Anglican bishop. The papal tiara or Catholic bishop's hat are depicted different in heraldry. The left hand side is possibly the coat of arms of his diocese, with the right hand side being his personal coat of arms. This is a common way of depicting arms for bishops and archbishops. If you can find a British town with the left hand coat of arms you might be pretty close.

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    I am pretty sure the hat indicates it is the arms of an Anglican bishop. The papal tiara or Catholic bishop's hat are depicted different in heraldry. The left hand side is possibly the coat of arms of his diocese, with the right hand side being his personal coat of arms. This is a common way of depicting arms for bishops and archbishops. If you can find a British town with the left hand coat of arms you might be pretty close.

    Are you trying to tell me....... there is no Santa? :shame:

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    I am pretty sure the hat indicates it is the arms of an Anglican bishop. The papal tiara or Catholic bishop's hat are depicted different in heraldry. The left hand side is possibly the coat of arms of his diocese, with the right hand side being his personal coat of arms. This is a common way of depicting arms for bishops and archbishops. If you can find a British town with the left hand coat of arms you might be pretty close.

    Thanks Paul.

    The 'hat' is definitely a mitre. (Not the triple crown, Chris!)

    I have already tried various combinations of church arms, and those of colleges and universities in England, with no success.

    I know a wee bit about heraldry (I actually designed the coat of arms shown below, under the guidance of the Lord Lyon) and I was beginning to wonder if the arms on the box might be some sort of imaginative contrivance. :banger:

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    1483... the year martin Luther was born.... yet... the popes hat is at the top!

    Luther cuts away at catholic dogma....

    only 3 reindeer instead of 8????? Lets assume these 3 are Dasher, Donner and Blitzen....

    Where are Dancer, Prancer, Vixen, Comet and Cupid?

    Does this mean that strong Lutheren faith will be martial (Dasher, Donner, Blitzen)? Will a laid back live and let live philosophy be replaced by a tyranny Leaning towards being Anti Gay (Dancer and Prancer), Anti Loose women (Vixen), against extra terrestrial (Comet) and against love (Cupid)....

    Did the pope kill the happy five... or did Luther wish them away?

    I think that lid may solve all of lifes riddles if interpreted right...... :ninja:

    Chris, I know nothing about the box except it looks nice, but I love your post. Cheers Captain Albert

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    Robin,

    I'm taking a stab at this.............the keys and crown are/were the heraldic emblem of the Lord Chancellor. John Russell, who was the Bishop of Rochester (1476-1480), and then Bishop of Lincoln (1480-1494), was also Lord Chancellor and he died in 1494. He accepted the office of Lord Chancellor from Richard III on 13 May 1483. I'm guessing that these are his arms showing the office of Lord Chancellor and either his personal arms, or his arms as the bishop of Lincoln.

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    Robin,

    I'm taking a stab at this.............the keys and crown are/were the heraldic emblem of the Lord Chancellor. John Russell, who was the Bishop of Rochester (1476-1480), and then Bishop of Lincoln (1480-1494), was also Lord Chancellor and he died in 1494. He accepted the office of Lord Chancellor from Richard III on 13 May 1483. I'm guessing that these are his arms showing the office of Lord Chancellor and either his personal arms, or his arms as the bishop of Lincoln.

    Mike.

    Thanks for that information. You could be right...............if no-one else comes up with anything more concrete, the eagle badge is yours.

    What I'm really after is another illustration from somewhere showing the same coat of arms, with a positive identification.

    Thanks again. :cheers:

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    Mike.

    Thanks for that information. You could be right...............if no-one else comes up with anything more concrete, the eagle badge is yours.

    What I'm really after is another illustration from somewhere showing the same coat of arms, with a positive identification.

    Thanks again. :cheers:

    I tried and tried to see if I could find John Russell's arms, but no luck. I have a feeling those arms are his personal arms and not the arms of his diocese. I did find an illustration of the arms of the Lord Chancellor, so I know I'm right on that half at least!

    If it's okay with you, I don't really need the badge. I don't collect Third Reich stuff and I'm sure you could put it to greater use.

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