Stogieman Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 This fellow has offered me this badge and I am interested, but have no clue on the reality of the piece. Is this a legit Mongolian Badge for anti partisan. The book while very intriguing, doesn't seem to really conform to what I would expect for an award document per se. Any and all opinions are welcome and the guidance greatly appreciated.http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...AMEDW%3AIT&rd=1Thanks much guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuliganRS Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Rick,That early of a badge would have to be made in the Soviet Union and I would expect to see some mint mark.I'm not that big into intricacies of the Mongolian awards to be of any help.Rusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 I'm not sure we yet know enough about Mongolian badges that early to be sure about much. While the "orders" may have been made in the Soviet Union, where were the lesser badges made? I'm not sure we know. If legitimate, the pair seems pretty rare. All (all) you'd need is someone to translate the Mongolian! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted December 14, 2005 Author Share Posted December 14, 2005 Well, any suggestions on anyone who can "read" Mongolian?? French & German I can handle, but I wouldn't even know where to start with something like this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted December 14, 2005 Author Share Posted December 14, 2005 Oh yeah.... can anyone who has the current Mongolian Book that came out recently take a peek and see if there's anything in there that matches this? Thanks!! Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 I know a couple of historians who do Mongolian history, and I'm sure they can read it. Not a large stable of these folk exist; kind of like the population count of those who can read Manchu. I doubt there are many in Ulanbaatar who could handle it, after all these decades of Cyrillic.Should any of you get the document, or one like it, I can ask around.Although, should all else fail: http://www.linguamongolia.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Oh yeah.... can anyone who has the current Mongolian Book that came out recently take a peek and see if there's anything in there that matches this? Thanks!! RickYep, it is there, p. 80, under army badges, as C 05, "Partizan, 1921". No details, and Battushig admits the badge sections are less than perfect (but it is something!). He has talked about doing a badge update online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuliganRS Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Ed,Although you may be correct to me the badge smells Russian. The enamel is what does it. It's too nice!I do think that the pin on the back is a replacement.Rusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuliganRS Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Is the revese just like this one in the book?Rusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 With apologies to Dr. B: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuliganRS Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Great!Thanks Ed.Dr. B -> Sorry.Rusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 And, by the way, rather than being "anti partisan" (that sounds really Nazi), I'd guess this would be for the partisans who fought in Sukhbaatar's 400-man strong partisan army that captured Khigat from the Chinese on 18 March 1921 (a day that would become Mongolian Army Day and a highly symbolic moment in the early history of the nation). This came to be seen as THE turning-point in establishing Mongolian independence from China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted December 14, 2005 Author Share Posted December 14, 2005 hmmmm, same pin but very different back image. Hmmmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 hmmmm, same pin but very different back image. Hmmmmm.The one Dr. B. shows looks like it was made from recycled oil cans. The e$cam one is much better quality. Too good? Until we know more (chronology, for example), who knows, . . . ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuliganRS Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 That is true.The obverses look identical. There could have been some foreign material that got into the press and that caused those marks on the revese of Dr. B's badge.We need to look at another badge to see a 3rd reverse.Rusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 We need to look at another badge to see a 3rd reverse.Your wish is my command. I'll try to pick up a few in Ulanbaatar this summer. Really, I will . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuliganRS Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Ed,Do you mind picking me up a few orders of SB? ??? Rusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vatjan Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 (edited) Hi guys,The badge is indeed the Partisan badge, and not anti-partisan.The one in Dr B's book is a unique piece with this special "recycled" metal reverse.There are 3 variations, screwback numbered, screwback not numbered and pinback numbered.The numbering style is correct for this badge.The doc is also good, although there is no way to tell this specific badge goes with this specific doc, since the badge's number in not written in the book. So it could be put together, or it might be good, you'll never know. The doc is an early emmission, because the date is written in Uighur rather than in cyrillic, as is the case in later docs. I have several, I'll post pix laterI have one exemple where the number of the badge was added in handwriting under the picture, but it is definitely not an official entry.These badges were issued in the early forties.The badges usually sell for +- 100 US, and the booklet for +- 50 US, now the prices have skyrocketed lately, and this is an early doc, possibly with matching badge, so it could be very expensive.Hope this helpsJan Edited December 14, 2005 by vatjan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vatjan Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 For starters an unnumbered screwback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vatjan Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 I forgot to mention that most of these docs have Choibalsan's signature in them, which is interesting in itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted December 14, 2005 Author Share Posted December 14, 2005 Vatjan! Much thanks for the assist on this one. The price is not out of line with what you suggest so I will take the plunge. My first! Upon receipt, I will post detailed scans of everything for everyone to study. I'd like to say thanks again to everyone who helped me out here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vatjan Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Please do post pics, the badge is in a really good condition and that is fairly rare.In the meantime take a look at one of my docs, notice the added number under the portrait.I do admit it looks more official than I remembered, but still not 100% because then the number would be mentionned on the text page somewhere.Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuliganRS Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Great Info!Thanks!Rusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vatjan Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 I borrowed the pic from the seller, I hope he doesn't mind. It is for educational purposes, so I hope that's fine.Anyway, you can clearly compare the older Uighur date on this one, and the Cyrillic date on the doc in the previous post.On this one you can also see Choibalsan's signature on the right hand page.Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted December 14, 2005 Author Share Posted December 14, 2005 I am happy to say I have confirmation. Now we simply sweat until it's here. I will have the "ScanMan" make nice pix of all the pages in the book!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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