Austria-Hungary Silver Merit Cross with crown

[Tim B]

I don't see a lot posted on these and wondered if this one is okay? Are there things to look out for on these?

Understand there are variations between makers and have noticed different patterns under the enamel and crown. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Tim

[Tim B]

A little closer look. I have no idea if the ring is marked at this point. The enamel patterns look similar to those of Vinc Mayer of Wien, but I really haven't a clue on these.

Legit?

Thanks again,

Tim

[Tim B]

Okay, no repsonses yet. Let me ask something else.

Are all of these marked on the suspension ring? Are they all "silver", or were other metals also used on these silver Merit Cross?

Tim

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Tim.

these can be found in hallmarked silver, markings on the ribbon ring

and markings on the "tapes" under the crown, and there are silver plated ones,

and a late WW1 Zink version,

what I would like to know is it a red enamel insert in the crown on the one pictured above?

I will add pictures of mine after I get back from taking the dog for his daily stroll.

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

[Kev in Deva]

First a gold one :-p

Kevin in Deva.

[Kev in Deva]

Front.

Kevin in Deva.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Kev in Deva

[Kev in Deva]

Rear

[Kev in Deva]

Silver:-

Kevin in Deva. :cheers:

[Kev in Deva]

Rear with added dedication:-

Kevin in Deva. :cheers:

[Kev in Deva]

Detail of the Crown with inner enamel work:-

Kevin in Deva

[Kev in Deva]

A somewhat stripped damaged silver plated model:-

Kevin in Deva. :cheers:

[Kev in Deva]

Rear:-

Kevin in Deva. :cheers:

[Kev in Deva]

Mini Silver Cross:-

Kevin in Deva. :cheers:

[Kev in Deva]

Rear of the mini:-

Kevin in Deva. :cheers:

[Kev in Deva]

1916 WW1 Variation in Zink:-

Kevin in Deva- :cheers:

[Kev in Deva]

Rear Zink Model:-

Kevin in Deva. :cheers:

[Kev in Deva]

Rear Zink Model:-

Kevin in Deva. :cheers:

[Tim B]

Hello Kevin!

First, thank you for coming through! Much appreciated. Beautiful examples you show!

Regarding your question on if the enamel is an insert or not, I honestly don't know as I do not have the piece in hand yet. Actually, I expect to pay for it later today and was hoping for more "assurances" prior to sending payment. The seller offers a 14 day inspection/return policy and I don't normally renig on my promise to pay; just if it was in fact not good, I thought I would inform the seller and avoid the return costs and hassles altogether.

The only PIC's I have are the ones posted. With that said, it appears the crown enamel is inlaid similar to that on the cross arms, but I may be wrong here and won't know for sure until I have it in-hand. Based on the other examples you show, I might tend to think this one is silver plated. In my eyes, it doesn't appear to be zinc, nor does it have that old luster and varying patina that real silver has on your examples. Again, I may not know until I actually hold it. The seller stated he doesn't want to play with the piece to check for any markings, so...

Do you see anything that immediately stands out as WRONG?

Thanks again!

Tim

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Tim,

its hard to tell with such low resolution pictures as you have of the object, I played around with the light and contrast a bit, and cannot see any stamps or hall marks on the cross piece itself.

As regards my pieces battered and worn as they are I love them, I always had a soft spot for the "Auld Sojer" thats been through the wars.

Seeing as the seller is offering a 14 day return hopefully you will get to add some good photos here for closer inspection.

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

[Tim B]

Hi Kev!

Yes, I am going to take the chance and get it. Hopefully it's the real deal and if not, hopefully no issues returning it. Considering the costs being asked by several dealers, this one was about half and if authentic, a good deal IMO!

Thank you again and either way I'll post some good PIC's of it once I receive the piece. I am always guarded on Austrian ODM's, as some really nice copies of various awards are out there, some of which are simply amazing in quality and workmanship. We need good examples of all these original variations so others can compare when searching.

Thanks again!

Tim

[Richarddwh]

Hi Tim, based on the pics you've posted my gut instinct is that it is a very nice original example. I have one myself, I'd imagine they'd be very difficult to fake to any reasonable standard for the reason of the enamel alone.

[Tim B]

Hi Richard,

Yes, I will not know for sure until I get it in hand, but I also think it's going to be good news. Appears the seller is not really that knowledgeable on these awards. He had also listed a nice Karl bronze Signum Laudis and wasn't aware the rim was stamped "bronze" until I had asked about it and even then he had to loop it. He's sure the merit cross is original; time will tell.

Thanks,

Tim

[Josef Rietveld]

Hi tim,

personally i don't like the silver merit cross/crown you are showing.imho the enamel work is awfull for AH-Standards. it looks like

the enamel on 1960ies rothe-copies. most silver merit crosses/crown have no enamel inside the crown. the method of enameling the crown on the outside is known from late WW1-pieces (especially iron crown orders).

it could be a later reenamelling (repair ? ) but on the other hand why should one fake a silver merit cross? they have alway been affordable. so i guess it is just a late-war-piece with not so welldone enamel. funny that the are NO hallmarks even silvered late-war-bronce-pieces have normally an asteriks mark.

@kev

the zinc-version you showed is a eisernes verdienstkreuz (iron merit cross). the look like a lower grade of the silver/gold merit crosses but it was created as an award of its own with statutes and regulations different from the other merit crosses.

regards

josef

[Tim B]

Hi Josef,

I had PM'd you five days ago on this one and didn't hear back, so went ahead. Now, I have to wait and get it in-hand to find out for sure. I don't know if the ring has marks or not at this point as I cannot see under the ribbon and the seller didn't know or want to check it. Hopefully it will look better in hand, just have to wait and see at this point.

Thanks though.

Tim

[Josef Rietveld]

Hi Josef,

I had PM'd you five days ago on this one and didn't hear back, so went ahead. Now, I have to wait and get it in-hand to find out for sure. I don't know if the ring has marks or not at this point as I cannot see under the ribbon and the seller didn't know or want to check it. Hopefully it will look better in hand, just have to wait and see at this point.

Thanks though.

Tim

I'am sorry, i read your PM, but i a had a very very exausting project-deadline-phase and had no energy to answer via pm nor on the forum.

I don't say this piece is crap, it is just that i have seen many merit crosses that were more beautifull. maybe the pics i have seen so far don't match your merit cross in reality.

again sorry

josef