British Victory Medals

[Tony]

Hope it's ok to add this altered British Victory medal.

It was turned into a brooch and unfortunately the safety chain is missing. It has a brown colour instead of the usual gold. I can't be sure if it's the type 1 chocolate brown coloured VM mentioned earlier in this thread or if it's just dirty. The detail isn't too bad so maybe it's grime.

The recipient of this medal was often awol, paying fines, confined to barracks or doing much field punishment No. 2.

Tony

[RobW]

Hope it's ok to add this altered British Victory medal.

It was turned into a brooch and unfortunately the safety chain is missing. It has a brown colour instead of the usual gold. I can't be sure if it's the type 1 chocolate brown coloured VM mentioned earlier in this thread or if it's just dirty. The detail isn't too bad so maybe it's grime.

The recipient of this medal was often awol, paying fines, confined to barracks or doing much field punishment No. 2.

Tony

Hello Tony,

Welcome to the thread. Always good to see another face with vics.

If you check the recipient details against their MIC it should have an issue date for the medal. If it is before January 1921 it is most likely a type 1. If after that date it is, as you suggest, most likely just dirty or tarnished with time.

Regards,

Rob

Edited June 25, 2010 by RobW

[Tony]

Thanks Rob,

I think his employer enquired as to the whereabouts in May 1921 so probably just a grubby medal.

Below is the reverse of his MIC, looks like 2.5.21 to me. What do you think?

Tony

[Kev in Deva]

Hope it's ok to add this altered British Victory medal.

It was turned into a brooch and unfortunately the safety chain is missing. It has a brown colour instead of the usual gold. I can't be sure if it's the type 1 chocolate brown coloured VM mentioned earlier in this thread or if it's just dirty. The detail isn't too bad so maybe it's grime.

The recipient of this medal was often awol, paying fines, confined to barracks or doing much field punishment No. 2.

Tony

Some information with regards dark bronze Victory Medals taken from"The Inter-Allied Victory Medals of World War 1" (2nd Revised Edition) by the late Alexander J. Laslo.

During the initial stages of production of the (British) Victory Medal, there was some difficulty in attaining a satisfactory finish and suspension device for the medal- Winston Churchill, then Secretary of State for War, considered the first 100 Victory Medals to be "a disgraceful production, worthy of a Christmas cracker."

Almost all of these early production problems can be attributed to the eagerness of the Royal Mint to conform to the resolution of the Inter-allied Commission that the finish and suspension device of the Victory Medal be similar to the French Campaign Medal of 1870 -1871. In attempting to follow exactly the French technique in producing the campaign medal of 1870 - 1871, the barrel suspension device was soldered to the planchet and the finishing process included sandblasting the medal to achieve the desired patina. The suspension device, however, was not always properly soldered to the planchet and easily broke off. Beside difficulties with the suspension device, many felt the medal's chocolate-coloured bronze finish was too dark, not durable, and that sandblasting had obscured the delicacy of the design.

After 627 of these problem Victory Medals had been issued, including one to King George V, it was decided that instead of soldering the suspension device to the planchet the device would be be cut-out of the planchet. In September 1920, Woolwich began a large scale production of the Victory Medal with the integral suspension device, although there were continued reservations about the finish of the medal.

Because of its dark dull finish and shallow relief, many veterans and few politicians thought the Victory Medal was tawdry looking and unworthy of presentation. The answer seemed to be entirely different finish. Accordingly, the King approved on the 3 January 1921 a recommendation to produce the Victory Medal without the sandblasting and with a "bright" finish. Still the new version was not without its problems. It soon became apparent that the bright finish tarnished easily, the medal surface tended to become iridescent. For this reason, its difficult to find a British Victory Medal without some surface discoloration.

Only a relative small number of dark bronze Victory Medals were issued and many were returned by the recipients for the new medal. Most of the dark bronze medals stuck probably never reached the engraver, but were returned to Woolwich for refinishing when the medal colour changed. The number of dark bronze Victory Medals that have survived is not known, although they are defiantly scarce. Surprisingly British dealers do not appear to add a premium for the dark bronze variety despite its rarity. This oversight is probably the result of a natural tendency among British dealers and collectors to emphasize the historical interest in named medals above its numismatic value.

There are various ideas as to the distribution of the dark bronze Victory Medal. One popular notion is the dark bronze variety was issued for the 1914officer casualties. Another view is the medal was first issued to the Royal Artillery regardless of rank and to all others by seniority before being discontinued, which explains why the dark bronze Victory Medal frequently appears in General officer groups.

However, as this was the initial issue of a new medal, its reasonable that very high ranking officers would receive it before others. The usual method for issuing the Victory Medal was that officers had to apply; while for enlisted personnel. the corps or regiment compiled a roll of those eligible and forwarded the roll to the relevant authority. The author' survey of 56 such medals showed no correlation by rank, branch of army service, and casualty versus non-casualty. It is interesting to note that among the medals surveyed there was a preponderance of awards to officers and only one to the Navy.

In my opinion, yours appears to have a time related patina, as opposed to the dark chocolate bronze patina, I would recommend a wash in warm soapy water and a thorough dry with soft paper towels.

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

[RobW]

Thanks Rob,

I think his employer enquired as to the whereabouts in May 1921 so probably just a grubby medal.

Below is the reverse of his MIC, looks like 2.5.21 to me. What do you think?

Tony

Hello Tony,

Yes I would agree that May 1921 looks correct.

The fact that there is so much detail on the MICs make them such a good source of information and it certainly assists the collector in conducting research. The story 'behind the medal' is in a lot of cases much more interesting than the actual medal itself.

Regards,

Rob

[johnnymac]

Changing subject,

To All

I purchased on ebay a British War Medal plus a WWI, U.S. NavyVictory Medal (no clasp) for $1. and $6 S&H. I do not have connections to get information on Britishservicemen, so I am asking if someone does, will they look up LIEUT. H.H.R.VIBART.

Thank You, JM

[Thomas Symmonds]

Changing subject,

To All

I purchased on ebay a British War Medal plus a WWI, U.S. NavyVictory Medal (no clasp) for $1. and $6 S&H. I do not have connections to get information on Britishservicemen, so I am asking if someone does, will they look up LIEUT. H.H.R.VIBART.

Thank You, JM

Hello JM -

I think this may be your man - Lieut HHR Vibart

Medal card of Vibart, Hugh Henry RoseCorps:Royal Army Service CorpsRank:Lieutenant

regards

Thomas

1914-1920WO 372/20

[Obergefreiter]

I got this a few days ago. Any comments?

[Obergefreiter]

And these shots as well.

[paul wood]

And these shots as well.

Nice one.

Is entitled to the 1914 Star which he received on the 23 July 1919. He served at Dunkirk

and Dunkirk RNAS stations and thus not entitled to the clasp.

Paul

[Herman]

then on to Great Britain.

I own two British VM's. The first one is part of a trio all named to a Private Stevens of the Wiltshire Regiment. The rim reads: 14493 PTE G.C. STEVENS. WILTS.R.

The VM is a type 2.

[Herman]

my second Victory medal of Great Britain is a single one with a Mentioned in Despatches oakleaf. I also own the MiD certificate.

The name on the rim reads: S-307535 A. CPL. S. SANDERS. A.S.C.

The oakleaf was attached to the reverse side of the ribbon when it arrived in the mail. I kept it as it is.

Edited May 19, 2011 by Herman

[Gunner 1]

Some slides from a Power Point seminar talk that I gave at the 2010 OMSA Convention on Great War medals including the different types of British Victory Medals (copyright and all rights of publication for posts #2-#17 reserved by the author):

Edited June 23, 2011 by Gunner 1

[Gunner 1]

Comparisons of the Type I and Type II Victory Medals (1):

[Gunner 1]

Comparisons of the Type I and Type II Victory Medals (2):

[Gunner 1]

Comparisons of the Type I and Type II Victory Medals (3):

Edited June 23, 2011 by Gunner 1

[Gunner 1]

Comparisons of the Type I and Type II Victory Medals (3):

Edited June 23, 2011 by Gunner 1

[Gunner 1]

Comparisons of the Type I and Type II Victory Medals (4):

[Gunner 1]

A variety not mentioned by Laslo which I refer to as the Type IR (Refurbished Victory Medal). The Type I medals were found deficient in two ways: (1) the dark, chocolate brown, sand-blasted surface was not artistically pleasing; and (2) the suspension was not strong enough to resist breaking. Because of this, those men issued the Type I medal were given the chance to return their medal for refurbishing (see my article on "The Type I Victory Medal, 1914-19" in the Journal of the Orders and Medals Research Society, September 2009, p. 145-152). The two medals illustrated below were both refurbished by removing the dark color (probably by sandblasting which removed much of the detail)and soldering to strengthen the suspension. Both medals were re-issued to the recipients in November 1920.

[Gunner 1]

The following slides from the same talk are a preliminary study of naming on VMs and BWMs.

[Gunner 1]

The following slides from the same talk are a preliminary study of naming on VMs and BWMs (2).

[Gunner 1]

The following slides from the same talk are a preliminary study of naming on VMs and BWMs (3).

[Gunner 1]

The following slides from the same talk are a preliminary study of naming on VMs and BWMs (4).

[Gunner 1]

Officer ranks on VMs and BWMs (1). From top to bottom: 2.Lieut. (with stop after 'Lieut.'); 2.Lieut (without stop after 'Lieut'); 2-Lieut.

Edited June 23, 2011 by Gunner 1

[Gunner 1]

Officer ranks on VMs and BWMs (2). From top to bottom: 2.Lieut. with stops half-way up vertically; Lieut.; Q.M. & Lieut.

Edited June 23, 2011 by Gunner 1