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Tim B

Japanese Victory Medals

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I researched some more and found this same forum, important sections on the Vic Japanese who were "lost" and need to be in this topic:

Cited by Kev in Deva (Posted 12 February 2006)

" With regard the Japanese there were two types an Official, designed by Masakichi Hata and a "REPRO" produced in France a short time after the original was issued. The copy can be identified by its ball suspension device and shall depth of striking compared to the original Official issue.

There are also die diferences such a smaller globe, slimmer characters, and the accent lines in the flags are missing. Also another point to note is the medal dosent fit exactly into the recess in the wooden box

Numbers Issued by Japan: approximtely 400,000

Some of the copies are marked on the edge "MADE IN FRANCE".

Additionaly very pale lines of green and yellow distinguish original Japanese Victory Medals from the Western made ribbons.

POINT TO NOTE: In the last couple of years this Japanese type as well as the more rarer Allied Victory medals of Brazil, Cuba, Siam-Thailand, Greece, Portugal, Romania are being copied/faked. I believe they are coming out of the Birmingham area of England, one seller on British Ebay has the decency to declare them for what they are, however another EBayer out of Belgium regularly lists them as originals , the give away is the bog standard chocolate-brown colour and same ribbon to all. "

Edited by lambert

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Cited by Kev in Deva (Posted 23 October 2008)

" With regards the Japanese Inter-Allied Victory Medal,

page 61 of the book by Mr. Alexander J. Laslo

The Inter-Allied Victory Medal of WW1.

2nd Revised Edition:-

QUOTE

Designer:- Masakichi Hata (1882 - 1966)

Manufacturer:- Osaka Mint.

Number Issued:- Approximately 400,000 (21) .

(21) In correspondence with the author, the osaka Mint states the Japanese Victory Medal was struck during the 1920 but that the production quantity was not known. The Osaka Mint report for fiscal year 1921-22 noted that the Victory Medal was struck during the fiscal year: that is, between April 1, 1920 and March 31 1921. Given the statement of the Mint that the Victory Medal was struck during 1920 together with the September 16 1920 date of the Imperial Order which established the medal, it is presumed the Victory Medal was struck sometime between the date of the order and December 31 1920.

The total production of bronze medals for the fiscal year 1920 - 21 was 908,975. In addition to the Victory Medal, this figure included the 1914-1920 War Medal, the First National Census Commemorative Medal, and a number of other Medals. For this reason, the First Edition, estimate of issued Victory Medals has been reduced from 700,000 to 400,00 medals

A copy of the Japanese Victory Medal was produced in France, probably a short time after the original was issued. This copy is easily to recognise by its ball suspension device and shallow depth of striking compared to the original. There are also die variances such as smaller globe, thinner characters, and the absence of accent lines inside the flags. Some are marked on the edge with "MADE IN FRANCE".

Since the above book was published there are at least two modern copies being touted on the market, one in a very dark chocolate brown material, the other in shinny brass material, both have the British Inter-Allied medal ribbon attached and are usually offered without the box.

The original Japanese Victory Medals complete with wooden box show up on the online auction pages more often than the original Greek, Portuguese, versions, with the most rare being the Brazilian, Siamese, Philippines, followed by the Greek, Romanian and Czechoslovakian Medals.

The "Polish" Inter-Allied version is pure fantasy and offered mainly on American Ebay.""

Edited by lambert

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Cited by Paul L Murphy (Posted 23 October 2008)

" I have been keeping a record of certificate numbers which I encounter for Japanese medals since the medal rolls were sequential. So far the highest number Victory Medal certificate I have encountered is 99,533.

For the 1914-15 War Medal the highest certificate I have seen so far was 136,512 and for thw 1914-20 War Medal it is 310,037. I suspect that the Victory Medal was only given to those who got the earlier 1914-15 medal and not the 1914-20, which was mainly for the Siberian Expedition in 1919-20. This is only a personal view and I have no evidence to support it (yet). "

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Cited by RobW (Posted 24 July 2009)

" For a direct L-R side by side comparison here are a French made repro and a Japanese vic official. The first of the French made repro's were produced in the mid to late 1920's and were not all edge marked. Some have been seen with just BRONZE on the edge with others unmarked. Those produced in the 1930's have the edge marking 'MADE IN FRANCE' to comply with the US Tariff Law of 1931, which required marking with the country of origin.

There is, in addition, to the standard repro, a cast copy of the French repro as well. It has an even shallower field of detail, is suspended by a ball suspender and has the same French made ribbon. When I can find it I shall post pics. "

post-7101-1248428287.jpg

And the reverses.

Note the differences in detail of the flags and the slight differences and weight of the japanese inscriptions around the edge. In addition there are a number of instances where different characters are used, in particular at the bottom centre 6 o'clock position on the rim inscription.

Hope these pics help comparisons.

post-7101-1248428367.jpg

The ribbon that is used on the Japanese vic is generally chacterised by having quite a paler appearance than the ribbon used by other countries for their vics. Of note is that the yellow and green bands are generally quiet pale and almost absent, although I have a specimen in my collection that has a definitive green band. All original Japanese vics will have the standard 'hook and eye' on the ribbon reverse, for mounting, as well. The French ribbon again has a number of different variations depending on when it was produced but the colours are generally consistent, pretty vivid and strong.

I shall post a side-by-side comparison of two Japanese vics with slightly different ribbon hues when I have time shortly

Here are 2 of my japanese vics for a side-by-side comparison. Note the differences in ribbon hues between the two, and the strength of the green band on the medal on the left.

post-7101-1248574124.jpg

Here are the reverses.

post-7101-1248574281.jpg

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Cited by RobW (Posted 13 September 2009)

" As indicated in post #23 here are a couple of comparison pics of a regular French made Jap vic repro (on the left) and another French made cast copy repro (on the right).

Note the smaller suspender ball, shallower level of detail and slightly pitted appearance, attributable to the casting process. The diameter of the cast copy is 34.6 mm compared to 35.8 mm for the standard French repro compared to 36.5 mm of the official strike.

There is considerable flashing, pits, and filing marks on the rim indicative of the casting and finishing process.

Hope it is of use. "

post-7101-125281305176.jpg

And the reverse

post-7101-125281318749.jpg

Regards,

Rob

I hope I have left this topic as fully as possible (yet)

Lambert

Edited by lambert

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Cited by Paul L Murphy (Posted 23 October 2008)

" I have been keeping a record of certificate numbers which I encounter for Japanese medals since the medal rolls were sequential. So far the highest number Victory Medal certificate I have encountered is 99,533.

For the 1914-15 War Medal the highest certificate I have seen so far was 136,512 and for thw 1914-20 War Medal it is 310,037. I suspect that the Victory Medal was only given to those who got the earlier 1914-15 medal and not the 1914-20, which was mainly for the Siberian Expedition in 1919-20. This is only a personal view and I have no evidence to support it (yet). "

I have in my records from observations the following high numbers on certificates -

1914-15 War - 133,571 (not as high as Paul's 136,512)

1914-20 War - 346,397

WWI Victory - 206,904

Paul's theory could still be correct in that only 1914-15 medal recipients received the WWI Victory medal as well. Given the frequency of these medals, I'd expect to see numbers on certificates in the 300-400K range had there been that many issued. Seems a little odd that they don't appear otherwise.

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Here are the three examples in my collection, all vary somewhat in the ribbons, with minor differences in the medallions (hard to see in these small pics., sorry!) The green stripes in the first one are so bright - the ribbon is correct, but possibly a replacement, just not sure.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_10_2011/post-6375-0-22302700-1317530165.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_10_2011/post-6375-0-71156500-1317530174.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_10_2011/post-6375-0-27514700-1317530183.jpg

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Just picked up this Japanese vic. Looks like a good original Japanese manufacture. Thoughts?

http://greatwarcollection.weebly.com/japan-victory-medal.html

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Hi RelicHunter - it looks OK to me ...

Bill

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Just picked up this Japanese vic. Looks like a good original Japanese manufacture. Thoughts?

Hello RelicHunter,

Welcome to the thread. Always good to have new participants to contribute.

Yes, a nice example that has little wear. Did you obtain it by itself of complete with the box?

Regards, Rob

Edited by RobW

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I just have the medal, no box. I think I got a pretty good deal on it, even with the ribbon faded a bit, so I jumped on it. It's actually the first Victory Medal I have. I've been meaning to start trying to collect one of each nation, but hadn't really gotten around to it until now.

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It's actually the first Victory Medal I have.

The first one is always the start of the slippery slope!

I've been meaning to start trying to collect one of each nation, but hadn't really gotten around to it until now.

If you stick to just the 'official' issues this will an 'interesting' challenge to obtain a type-set.

If you then decide to branch out to the unofficial, re-issues, and reproductions, things become even more challenging.

Have fun.

Regards,

Rob

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I'll probably just stick with the official versions. I collect all things WW1 (though mostly just medical or things medics could have obtained), so I can't branch out too far. I just want a nice display with all 13 medals. Although I have no illusions about obtaining the ultra rare ones like Siam.

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Hello RelicHunter.

Welcome to our group. ! The collection of Vic is addictive, you'll soon find out. It takes some time to get the medals more "scarce", there is still the reproductions that can overcome the lack of the medal "official."

the total list of countries involved with the Inter-Allied Victory Medal are:

Belgium: official Types 1 & 2, Unofficial Type 1, 1a, 2, 3 and at least 4 Repros. (Repro and Unofficial very Scarce)

Brazil: Official Type 1 & 2. (Type 1 Very Rare and Type 2 Rare)

Cuba: Official Type, & at least 3 Repros. (All Rare)

Czechoslovakia: Official Type 1, 2, Reissue Type 1, 2, Unofficial Type 1, 2, 3, Repro at least 4 types. (All Scarce)

France: Official Type, Reissue, Unofficial Type 1, 1a, 2, 2a, 2b, 2c, 2d, 3, as well as 4 types of Repro. (Repro and Unofficial very Scarce)

Great Britain: Official Type 1, Type 2, Repro 1, 2. (Type 1 scarce)

South Africa: Official Type 1, Type 2, at least 2 Repro Types. (Type 1 scarce)

Greece: Official Type 1, Unofficial Type 1, 2, 3, and at least 2 Repro Types. (Unofficial Scarce)

Italy: Official Type 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, Reissue 1, 2, Unofficial Type 1, 2, 3, 4, at least 3 Repro Types. (Unofficial Scarce)

Japan: Official Type 1, Repro Type 2. (Repro Type 2 Rare)

Portugal:Official Type 1, 2, Unofficial Type 1, 2, Repro at least 4 known. (All Very Scarce)

Rumania: Official Type 1, Unofficial Type 1, 2, 3, 3a, Repro at least 3Types. ( All Scarce)

Siam / Thailand: Official Type 1, Repro at least 4 types known. (All Very Rare)

United States of America: Official Type 1, 2, 3, Reissue Type 1, 2, Repro Types 1, 1a, 2, 3, 3a, 4, 5, So called "Dollar types" (without suspension device) Types 1 & 2.

Regards

Lambert

Edited by lambert

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Hello RelicHunter.

Welcome to our group. ! The collection of Vic is addictive, you'll soon find out. It takes some time to get the medals more "scarce", there is still the reproductions that can overcome the lack of the medal "official."

Regards

Lambert

Hello Lambert,

You might like to re-post your complete list reply in the General Discussion area for all to view across the series.

Regards,

Rob

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Hi Gents,

My latest acquisition - the French-made repro Japanese vic:

frenchjap03-crop.jpg

Obverse

frenchjap04-crop.jpg

Reverse

The planchet diameter is a fraction under 37mm, and all the detail is very crisp and clear. The thickness is 1.8mm, and the edge shows regular file marks:

frenchjap05-crop.jpg

Edge

There are no 'Made in France' or 'Bronze' markings on the rim or suspension ring

Any comments welcome.

Bill

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Item more rare, hard to find .. :cheers:

Congratulations!

Lambert

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Hi Gents,

My latest acquisition - the French-made repro Japanese vic:

The planchet diameter is a fraction under 37mm, and all the detail is very crisp and clear. The thickness is 1.8mm, and the edge shows regular file marks:

There are no 'Made in France' or 'Bronze' markings on the rim or suspension ring

Any comments welcome.

Bill

Hello Bill,

As Lambert has already stated; a nice piece you have there. The striking is nice and crisp and it certainly shows the fineness of the detail on the reverse.

Regards,

Rob

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Hello Gents,

Not exactly a medal, but a small medallion I thought you might enjoy:

Hello Dieter,

Thanks for the link. Always nice to have other input especially as it is a related award.

Regards,

Rob

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Hello Dieter,

Thank you for sharing with us. This is a very iteressante for me .. I really like these commemorative medals of the Great War.

Lambert

Edited by lambert

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Glad you enjoyed it! Be sure to check out Rich Catalano's site too with the link he provided in that thread to others like this, the larger versions.

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Gents,

As it seems like my former post about my Japanese Victory Medal was deleted due to the re-structure of the forum, I’d like to post my set again.

Recently, I got a (cased) Victory Medal with an award document.

The award document was issued in 1920 (Taishô 9) to a Kaigun Shoi/Naval Special Unit Ensing. I’m not sure with the kanji reading of his name, but would assume Hashimoto Kosen (Esen?)

The case is slightly damaged. The medal has no mint marks. I thought, Medal has a replaced ribbon due to the fact, that the ribbon is pretty stiff with bright and light colours. Beside this, I was wondering about the fixing of the eye, which is fixed with a plate on the backside of this ribbon.

Thanks to Dieter and Lambart, who read my former post before deleting, they dissipated my doubts about the authenticity of this ribbon.

Some questions anyhow for this medal. Is it known, until when it was produced in Japan? Or maybe it’s still in production, e.g. for vets or collectors? Does anybody know, where it was (is?) produced? At the mint in Osaka and/or Hiroshima?

Sorry for this creepy photos. I’ll try to make better one if needed!

BR, Chris

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