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An Italian tack now Gentlemen & Ladies ...

Thank you to Rob for a fantastic reference book (and a brilliant addition to my Vic collection - to be shown at a later date). Now I am able to gleem all sorts of answers - and perhaps the reason why I have been a bit quiet here.

My three Italian beauties ... types 1, 2, & 3 in Laslo (I can say that now)

post-6667-095974400 1288178878_thumb.jpg

Individual, and name close ups to follow.

Thomas

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I feel as though I need to quote the whole of Laslo's text - it really is very informative... ?

Does anyone have any of the unofficial Italian Vic medals?

best regards

Thomas

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I feel as though I need to quote the whole of Laslo's text - it really is very informative... ?

Does anyone have any of the unofficial Italian Vic medals?

best regards

Thomas

Hello Thomas,

Yes I have the unofficial type 1 Italian vic. They are particularly hard to find even among Italian collectors. It has been posted earlier in this thread (posts # 74 & 75). I obtained it direct from an Italian collector. There are quite a number of modern reproductions of this unofficial type 1 so it pays to be wary and ensure the originality of the piece.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Rob

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To all,

Here is a not often seen italian vic. It is an official type 2 (Johnson) in silvered bronze.

This will be my last post for a while as holidays loom.

Regards,

Rob

post-7101-031867300 1290934189_thumb.jpg

Edited by RobW

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To all,

Here is a not often seen italian vic. It is an official type 2 (Johnson) in silvered bronze.

This will be my last post for a while as holidays loom.

Regards,

Rob

Since I have never handled one I have no first hand information on it.

1. What would be the reasoning for silver? elitism?

2. Was this one sprayed as it seems the silver is chipping off, and there is not hint of silver in the exposed parts of the bronze. Most illustrations I have seen were plated or as one person listed, it was solid silver?

3. Do you feel it was done in an aftermarket or by the manufacturer?

Regards, Johnmac (JM

Edited by johnnymac

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Since I have never handled one I have no first hand information on it.

1. What would be the reasoning for silver? elitism?

2. Was this one sprayed as it seems the silver is chipping off, and there is not hint of silver in the exposed parts of the bronze. Most illustrations I have seen were plated or as one person listed, it was solid silver?

3. Do you feel it was done in an aftermarket or by the manufacturer?

Regards, Johnmac (JM

Hello JM,

To answer your questions:

1. As far as I've been able to determine this was done by the manucturer. It is not unlikely that it was done to enhance a recipients group but I wouldn't use the word 'elitism'.

2. It is merely silver plated over bronze. I have seen a small number of italian and french unofficial vics that have been similarly silver-plated.

3. The manufacturer, in this case Stefano Johnson of Milan, produced a limited quantity of silvered-bronze items, as well as some in silver. I have also seen a shiny bronze, gilt finish variety.

Regards,

Rob

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Hello JM,

To answer your questions:

1. As far as I've been able to determine this was done by the manucturer. It is not unlikely that it was done to enhance a recipients group but I wouldn't use the word 'elitism'.

2. It is merely silver plated over bronze. I have seen a small number of italian and french unofficial vics that have been similarly silver-plated.

3. The manufacturer, in this case Stefano Johnson of Milan, produced a limited quantity of silvered-bronze items, as well as some in silver. I have also seen a shiny bronze, gilt finish variety.

Regards,

Rob

Of course you would use the word elitism, who else would have wasted millions of lives. Elitism is the belief or attitude by individuals who are considered themselves members of a select group of people with superior intellect and wealth.

The Officer Corps was made up of mostly wealthy families who conceded "themselves" the "elite". Besides who else in that time period would have purchased a medal gilded, plated or made of solid silver to just enhance it.

In the U.S.A. many when to Bailey, Banks and Biddle for the same reason.

Rob, Thanks for the info and come back

JM

Edited by johnnymac

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Oh, and what I found from one of my boxes, even didn't remember that I have one from Italy....

1732369350a7d5_o.jpg

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Oh, and what I found from one of my boxes, even didn't remember that I have one from Italy....

Hello Timo,

That is a nice official type 4 vic. It doesn't have any makers mark on the front right hand side.

This type is seen much less than those manufactured by Sacchini, Johnson and F.M Lorioli-Castelli. A nice pickup.

Regards,

Rob

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To All

Can someone post a large and clear side by side illustrationof both the obverse and reverse sides to show the different between the Italian"Official type 1" and the Italian "Reissue type 1" sincethey both are by the same manufacturer but at different time period.

Thanks JM

Hello JM,

I have both pieces in my collection. When I have time I will track the pieces down and do a side-by-side scan.

Regards,

Rob

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Hello all,

Following a request from JM from a while back here is a side-by-side comparison of the Italian vic official type 2 (on the left as viewed) and the reissue type 1 (both S. Johnson).

Apart from the much thicker staffa suspender, reduced level of fine detail, minor detail differences, and different metal composition, there is little to tell the two apart.

Regards,

Rob

Edited by RobW

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My Italian VM's.

I have three: An official type 1, marked: Orsolini Mod, Sacchini Milano

an official type 2, marked: Orsolini Mod, S. Johnson Milano

and an official type 3, marked: Orsolini Mod, F.M. Lorioli Castelli Milano

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Well, I'm back with a question all ready!

With the Italian vic. - which type(s) have the date 1915 on the reverse? I've seen a couple of photos in posts on the thread which seem to have this date, but the type given, if I've understood the post, is different.

I find the search facility a little disconcerting - if I ask for "italy type 3" it's rejected because it won't deal with a single letter or number. Is there a work-around for this?

Bill

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Bill,

First, welcome to the forum! I think you'll enjoy your time here at GMIC and hopefully not only in this section. :cheers:

Laslo does have the best printed reference out there that I am aware of and the 2nd edition was his latest endeavor. You do see these offered from time to time on avenues like eBay or Amazon, but it comes down to who else is looking. I would suggest watching eBay for the best chance of getting a copy the cheapest.

On the Italian Vic questions:

According to Laslo, the only official medal of Orsolini's design that has the 1915 date (the actual date Italy entered the war) is known as the Type 5. There are a couple of other unofficial or unknown origin medals as well. It must be pretty rare as I do not see these being offered anywhere and it's still one that I need as well.

Tim

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Right - another question!

I recently bought an Italian vic, maker Sacchini, for which I have misgivings.

The details on obverse and reverse are clean and clear - I can see Victory's navel! The Orsini.MOD and Sacchini Milano are clear, too. The G Villa. ING is clear on the reverse.

So, why the misgivings? There are striations on the edge all the way round, including the staffa, extending for half the width from the reverse. Under the glass they have a granular appearance, which I think is due to shearing, possibly when the blank was stamped out, or from the striking in the die. There are no signs of filing.

The question is, do I have a bad'n?

Also on the subject of the Italian vics, I notice that the Type 5 with the date 1914 has a smaller figure of Victory - almost 2/3 the size of the other types.

Any help much appreciated.

Bill

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Hi Bill,

PIC's are always needed to say for sure but it sounds okay at this point. Some of these are much better than others in details and they are quite beautiful when the details stand out.

Tim

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Hi Tim - I was afraid you would ask for PICs! Anyway, here's my attempt.

italian02-crop.jpg

Obverse

italian01-crop.jpg

Reverse

italianvic03-crop.jpg

Edge - please excuse the crude holder.

The dimensions of the medal are diameter 36.6mm, thickness 2.3 mm.

Still on the subject of Italian vics - there was one on e-bay UK last night which the seller says has MCMX111 instead of MCMXIII - sounds very suspicious.

Bill

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Hi Tim - I was afraid you would ask for PICs! Anyway, here's my attempt.

Still on the subject of Italian vics - there was one on e-bay UK last night which the seller says has MCMX111 instead of MCMXIII - sounds very suspicious.

Bill

There are two Italian VM's on Ebay with MCMXIII, one with ribbon and one without !!!!!!! Two different sellers

Rogan

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Still on the subject of Italian vics - there was one on e-bay UK last night which the seller says has MCMX111 instead of MCMXIII - sounds very suspicious.

Bill

Edited by IrishGunner

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Sorry - another question about Italian vics - I'll try to make it the last!

Having got my head round the Type 5, with the date 1915 on the reverse and the small figure of Victory, I see that e-bay UK has what the seller describes as a Czech-made Unofficial Type 1, with the date 1914 on the reverse, and the small Victory. No designer, maker or die-sinker names.

So, the question is - what type(s) have the small Victory?

I never knew the subject was so complicated until I found this Forum!

Bill

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Hi Tim - I was afraid you would ask for PICs! Anyway, here's my attempt.

Bill

Hi Bill,

IMO, your vic is fine. It has a sharp strike and the edges look like shear marks from the die as these got stamped out.

Tim

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