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RobW

Thai/Siamese Victory Medals

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Oliver860

Take a look at: Numismatic Forgery by Charles Larson :

https://www.amazon.com/Numismatic-Forgery-Charles-M-Larson/dp/0974237124/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1476730037&sr=8-1&keywords=numismatic+forgery

However, detailed inspection compared with a known good piece is pretty good at detecting copies for officially struck medals such as most of these.  A modern forger usually doesn't have full mint-quality dies and machines to duplicate this quality, However Chinese forging factories seem to be doing well on this.  More difficult to detect are medals not made by a mint, of which many varieties exist, and orders. Ernst Blass is infamous for his forging efforts.  And some areas are totally overcome by fakes - German 3rd Reich everything, Vietnam-era patches, and probably others.  All the Interallied victory medals and bars are faked by Mike Shank as described elsewhere, and are often passed as genuine. Many of the others are copied individually elsewhere.

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Hi davidck,

This looks like a genuine one.  But some others with this dealer don't:

Laslo "repro" for collectors (read fake) described as genuine, but with an intermediate price : http://www.emedals.com/a-rare-first-war-thai-victory-medal-1917-1918

Other Rama V fake: http://www.emedals.com/a-thai-rama-v-royal-household-merit-medal-2nd-class-c-1900

Other major Canadian dealer items - This was sold as genuine, but was a Blass fake (Laslo Repro): http://www.medalsofwar.com/product/siam-wwi-victory-medal-type-1-official/ (went for $2500, but should be maybe $400 at most)

Rgds

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" I see there are many types and thus it is up to the Buyer to know what they are bidding on as the details between the types can be very small to tell. "  What a cop-out, especially as there is no indication that it might be a copy or off-make and the starting price - $US 1,500 - would lead an unwary buyer to assume ti was an original.

I'm glad to see it didn't sell!

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Hi guys...first post on the forum after lurking. absorbing and juggling time management. Firstly, thank you all for the wealth of knowledge contained within the forum and the time taken to post. I have only been collecting for a couple of (expensive) years and it is certainly a steep learning curve in all areas of interest.

After picking up recently Rumanian and Portugese VMs from the USA I am now down to the elusive Brazil, Cuba and Siam ones to complete my collection (not including the Philippines). I believe all my other VMs I have collected thus far are "good" medals thanks a lot to the information provided in this forum.

I am certainly not in a rush to find these last few as, of course, they tend to be the most expensive.

Anyway, I did notice this Siam one coming up for auction in a few days time but it looks totally dodgy to me, based on limited experience but comparing with the photos displayed in this thread. I just thought I would post it to have my suspicions confirmed or otherwise and potentially warn others out there?

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/james-and-son-auctioneers/catalogue-id-srjam10079/lot-2dac230f-aaee-41a7-9dee-a6de00cee3c4?bidplaced=

Even the auctioneer's photos are poor - why do they do this?? (rhetoric question :o)

Cheers.

original 1.jpg

original 2.jpg

Edited by Percy Chapman

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Percy,

Terrible pics but, not an original example in my opinion.  Take your time, it will pay off though the ones you have left are not going to be cheap.

Tim

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Thanks for the reply and advice Tim. Yes, those were the pics from the auctioneer!

I totally understand the remaining few are going to cost a bundle if I pursue them. :(

Regards,

Percy

Edited by Percy Chapman
simplify

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Hello Percy,

To echo Tim's response; definitely not an official piece.  I would suggest you copy one of the close-up pics of the obverse/reverse of the official Siam vic from this sub-thread and use that as a guide when attempting to locate an official example.

Short of requesting additional pics from the vendor, you would be well placed to observe and confirm before parting with your money.  The Brazil, Cuba and Siam pieces are becoming harder to obtain in good condition and prices never seem to go down.

Have fun searching.

Regards,
Rob

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Hi Rob,

Thanks for the comments and noted. I was pretty certain it not an official one and posted to confirm as well as alert and prospective bidders. When bidding for medals at online auctions I have always requested additional images from the auctioneer and tend to stick with reputable auctions houses such as DNW in the UK for example.

Yes the elusive three are on my radar but not rushing into it.

Cheers,

Percy

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On 11/10/2016 at 11:10, davidck said:

Anyone have thoughts on if this is a genuine official Siamese vic?  It looks pretty legit to me.

http://www.emedals.com/a-rare-wwi-thai-victory-medal-w2010

I was taking a closer look at this one, and decided that it doesn't look official to me.  It looks more like the repro type 3 in the Michels book because of the thicker fingers and size of the earring.  Thoughts?

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David - the fingers look fine to me ...

e7327276-d51d-477c-a2d5-13a23b7e2d2d_zps

This is my main 'tell'.

Bill

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Hi davidck

This one looks ok. 

The other two that they have listed as genuine however are not...

listed as " official type, extensively cleaned " but actually is Laslo Repro Type 1

https://www.emedals.com/a-rare-first-war-thai-victory-medal-1917-1918

listed as" official type " but actually is Laslo Repro Type 2 (aka Blass copy)

https://www.emedals.com/a-rare-first-war-thailand-victory-medal-w2226

Rgds

Dave

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What about the folds on the pants, which are more pronounced than in pictures of officials that I've seen?  Also the earring, which looks bigger than pictures I've seen.  I'm trying to be diligent, because I'm thinking of making this a tax return present to myself, and it's a lot of money to drop on a fake.

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5 hours ago, davidck said:

What about the folds on the pants, which are more pronounced than in pictures of officials that I've seen?  Also the earring, which looks bigger than pictures I've seen.  I'm trying to be diligent, because I'm thinking of making this a tax return present to myself, and it's a lot of money to drop on a fake.

Nevermind.  On closer inspection and with help from older posts with good pictures in this thread, I satisfied myself that it is the real deal and not, as initially suspected, the type 3 repro.  I took the leap (after convincing my incredulous wife that it wasn't such a terrible idea because it won't lose its value) and now have it on layaway.

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Well done David.

I regularly use the "investment" line when attempting to convince my wife...or myself for that matter on militaria purchases.

 

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I don't pitch it quite like that, because I don't plan to eventually sell it at a higher price.  But it's an appreciating asset, in the sense that it is only like to go up in value with time, which means that it can always be sold if we fall on hard times.  Buying collectibles doesn't actually decrease one's net worth.  But like you said, that's probably what I say to convince myself as much as it is to convince her. :-)

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Agreed David...I really don't plan to sell many of the items I purchase as well unless to get a better quality example. I buy them because that is what I like or want. But it does indeed help to convince one's self. :-)

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After paying it off over 6 months, it finally arrived.

IMG_1511.JPG

IMG_1512.JPG

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Wow !!! Perfect !

Congratulations David .. great acquisition! !:thumbup:

 

Lambert

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Hello david,

A nice example that you have waited patiently for. Sometimes the rarer examples are worth the wait. I would replace the current ribbon (as it is a latter US type) and replace it with some nice French made ribbon. That would  make your example more correct to type.

Regards,
Rob

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