jeffskea

King George V.I. CD and 2 bars

47 posts in this topic

Just recently aquired this set of three, nothing too unusual but I haven't seen too many G.VI CD's with two bars so thought I would post it, medals are in very nice condition and still tells a story. It is named to W.O.2 G.F. Finn - so if I'm correct he probably joined as a regular in 1939 and rose to W.O. Class II by 1951 for his first CD and retired in the early 70's. Haven't been able to find much on the man's service but will enjoy searching.

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ID: 2   Posted (edited)

- Canadian Volunteer Service Medal with Overseas clasp

- 1939-45 War Medal

- Canadian Forces Decoration (G.VI) with 2 bars (initially awarded for 12 yrs service and a bar for each 10 years so over 32 years service total)

Edited by jeffskea

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Well Hopefully this helps in your research. His name was Gerald Francis Finn SC90057. If you can prove he's been deceased for more than 20 years you can get his service file.

Cheers

Chris

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Thanks Chris that is great I will see what I can find and post it. Very appreciated.

Jeff

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Very nice find! This is the first GVI CD with 2 bars I've ever seen!

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I agree with Frank, this is a very nice fine. This is the first two bar GVI CD I've seen as well.

Thanks for posting it.

Regards

Brian

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Thanks very much, so far I have been able to confirm his CD in the National Library and Archives however it doesn't provide any further info about him or his unit so will keep researching.

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Just a shot in the dark here, but based on the medals and his rank, concentrate on the RCAF. I'd say the odds are very good he was an aircraft mechanic or some other ground pounder type.

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Is it the queens crown on the bars?

It would have to be... The GVI CD was only awarded for a short while. It is impossible for anybody to have received a CD bar with a King's crown. I've seen many vets with service overlapping the previous (British) LSGC awards and the C.D., they wore the older medals and received the C.D. 12 years after the award of the last LSGC medal or bar to it.

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ID: 11   Posted (edited)

Gentlemen.......

I have been trying to find a photo but with no luck at this time of Leonard Birchall, the Savior of Ceylon, CD and Five Bars......

INTRODUCTION:

On 4 April 1942, only two days after arrival, Squadron Leader Birchall was the ocean to the south of Ceylon. Eight hours into the mission, ships were spotted on the horizon. Investigation revealed a large Japanese fleet, including five aircraft carriers, headed for Ceylon. Birchall's crew managed to send out a radio message, but was soon shot down. The Japanese still attacked but, but because of Birchall’s signal the British cleared the port and, inflicted significant losses on the Japanese.

After he is shot down he is taken to a Japanese POW camp where he is the senior Allied officer. He repeatedly stands up and demands better treatment for his men

For this he is severely beaten. His actions and leadership drops the death rate from over 30% down to almost nothing. One day he encounters a group of sick POWs working at the docks, and orders them to stop, for this he is beaten to near death and sent to a disciplinary camp where he continues to fight for better treatment.

Throughout the ordeal he maintains a diary, knowing that he would be executed if it is ever discovered. This diary is used as evidence in war trials following the war.

He continuesd to serve in the Canadian Forces after the war.

He is the only military member to receive 5 bars on this Canadian Forces Decoration for 62 years of service.

Mike

Edited by QSAMIKE

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WO2 Finn was in the Royal Canadian Engineers - I'm grateful to a fellow Canadian member from the British Medals Forum for confirming. Still trying to research the man's story of long service.

Jeff

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6970408337_ca2fcb4d77.jpg

Wilfred Betcher had 34 years of service with the RCEME. 2 bars with his CD

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Yes, he had the NATO clasp to it, as he served at CFB Lahr

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Yes, he had the NATO clasp to it, as he served at CFB Lahr

Thats what I was thinking it would be. Many thanks

later

Larry

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ID: 18   Posted (edited)

The GVI CD was only awarded for a short while. It is impossible for anybody to have received a CD bar with a King's crown.

The above statement made in a previous post is not correct. While not common there are many examples of GVI CDs with KC clasp. In fact I have two in my personal collection.

Ed

Edited by Sailor Ed

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ID: 20   Posted (edited)

Thanks for posting that Ed I've never seen a G.VI. Bar before - I suppose it could be possible if he was commissioned as a regular officer some time after receiving his Perm Forces of the Empire Beyond the Seas LS&GC? The set shows at least 40 years of service, you'd think he would have been entitled to the Canadian Army Long Service and Good Conduct Medal after 1930 if he remained enlisted - maybe he elected to receive the CD instead as a preference?

Jeff

Edited by jeffskea

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ID: 22   Posted (edited)

The GVI CD was only awarded for a short while. It is impossible for anybody to have received a CD bar with a King's crown.

The above statement made in a previous post is not correct. While not common there are many examples of GVI CDs with KC clasp. In fact I have two in my personal collection.

Ed

Sailor Ed, sorry, but to me, from experience, after what I've been told and found in records, your set on the picture cannot exist as such, it is a mathematical impossibility. The only explanation I can come to is that already produced examples of KC bars were used until exhaustion of stocks, but for your fellow to have received one 10 years after a GVIR CD, sorry, but I find that verging on the impossible. Your fellow should have an Efficiency Medal and a GVIR CD with no bar, that would make sense, the rack on the pic does not.

The Colonial Permanent Forces LSGC medal was introduced in 1909 for NCOs and men, it was replaced by the Canadian Efficiency Medal in December 1931. The Canadian Forces Decoration (CD) superceded all other awards on 15 December 1949 and was first awarded on 1 September 1951 with GVIR and only until 1954 when the EIIR version came out. So it was only awarded for a maximum of 3 1/2 years with the GVIR effigy. This makes the award to anybody of a KC bar impossible unless exhausting old stock which I find extremely difficult to even imagine, its too easy to remelt them. Seems more likely they were sold and merchants simply slapped them on existing sets...

Considering years of service against the Efficiency Medal (up to 12 years) or a bar (up to 6 years) to it (not already awarded) counted against the CD, any eligible member to a GVIR CD, if presented the medal at the very first investiture on 1951, could not have acquired an additional 10 years for a bar in those 3 1/2 years. Mathematically, the first ever possible recipient of a bar to a CD would've occured in 1962!!!

I am unaware of any account, written or oral, stating the C.D. could physically replace previously awarded LSGC awards, by that I mean the Efficiency Medal would be physically removed from the rack and replaced by a CD with bar(s). As a matter of fact, quite the opposite, I started mounting medals while stationed in Moose Jaw in the early 80s and my mentor in the trade was the retired wartime RSM of the Sask Dragoons. He had the EM with 2 bars and a CD with no bar. I mounted dozens and dozens of sets from the Prairies in my 5 years there and it was always as such. Same when I was in the Maritimes. I mounted medals for over 20 years, this rule was omnipresent. The same principle applied to the Efficiency Decoration, just in case the old chap had been commissioned from the ranks, still impossible.

If I am incorrect, I would (truly) love to see old regs concerning this. But my personnal experience and knowledge of regs tell me that no KC CD bar was EVER issued.

Edited by TacHel

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ID: 23   Posted (edited)

Just a small note to clarify - there were two paths of long service medals that led to the CD - Permanent/Reg Force and Part Time/Reserve -

For Permanent Forces - the Colonial Forces of the Empire Beyond the Seas LS&GC was replaced by the Canadian Army Long Service and Good Conduct Medal and then the CD for all Reg Force NCO's - Permanent officers receiving no long service recognition until the CD came out.

For Militia/Reserve - The Colonial Auxilliary Forces Decoration and Long Service Medal were replaced by the Efficiency Decoration (officers) and Efficiency Medal (enlisted) respectively, and then the CD.

I agree with Tac Hel that by regulations the King's Crown was not possible but I'm sure stranger things happened - again the theory that he may have been commissioned from a Permanent NCO to Officer and felt he deserved recognition for his long service once the CD was established and open to both officers and enlisted - not authorized of course but maybe one of those personal alteration preferences that occasionally occur.

Jeff

Edited by jeffskea

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ID: 24   Posted (edited)

Also I wonder could there have been a statute when the CD was instituted that authorized retroactive service before 1939 to be recognized for permanent officers? Technically if that was the case an officer commissioned in 1930 and serving in 1952 would be entitled to a G.VI. CD with KC clasp. I would be interested to see some pre-post war serving perm officers, like Lt. Gen E.L.M. Burns or Gen Guy Simmonds, and see what clasps they have on their CD's.

Anyhow the BWM and CD from Ed's group will be named, so maybe he knows the story behind the recipient?

Edited by jeffskea

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Quite possibly an elected award. When the CD was introduced in 1950 those working toward LS medals requiring longer periods of service were allowed to opt for the CD instead but they had to have been serving prior to the start of WW2.

Ed

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