ERIC Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Hi Guys, I just received this badge in a grouping to an Observer from Fliegerhorstkompanie Westerland, one Hauptmann Hermann Grell - a nice early 1st Pattern from Deumer! The award document is dated for June of '39. I just wanted to show it off - I love the early Deumers!ERIC[attachmentid=23795] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERIC Posted January 21, 2006 Author Share Posted January 21, 2006 Reverse:[attachmentid=23799] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Temple-West Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 I've just been looking at the group, Eric. Superb!!The badge is in very nice condition and having provenance..... an added bonus. Congrat's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Temple-West Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 Eric,Here's the picture in question.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Temple-West Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 +1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Temple-West Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 In this compilation, Deumer (top) photo badge (middle) Assmann (bottom).Note the gap (arrow) between the feathers, something Assmann does not have.Could it be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERIC Posted March 5, 2006 Author Share Posted March 5, 2006 Hi John, Another wonderful pic! Great comparison photo as well! It does indeed look to be a Deumer 1st rather than an Assmann 1st. Not just on the close comparison shot, but the actual full size pic itself, when looking at the whole wreath shape, has me believing this too. Can't be 100%, but the characteristics noticeable would have me guessing this was a Deumer as well. You do have the eye for detail John! ERIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHE Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Hi Guys,http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=1669...0&start=140to be continued ...It is a early 1st Pattern from Deumer ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Temple-West Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Hi Che..It is.Here is its twin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHE Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Yes, I agree but ...Who has made it?regardsCHE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K. Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 whoa! CHE, is this the reverse of the badge you show in post #8? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHE Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 yes, of cose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WAR LORD Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 This was from the Littlejohn collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Temple-West Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Yes, I agree but ...Who has made it?regardsCHEThe "Assmann" mark is nothing like an original, and has been post-war applied. This is not the first time I've seen this done to these unmarked "Deumer" badges. A side-by-side comparison of Assmann (left)/Deumer (right) 1st pattern eagles.This was from the Littlejohn collection.Chris.. Although close in design, the "Littlejohn" Example is the "Juncker" Observer Badge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WAR LORD Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Thank you, yes I thought as much. The makers mark is very indistinct. But clearly has the Berlin address. The pin hing and hook are typical Junker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHE Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 (edited) ...has been post-war applied.I don`t know... maybeThis is not the first time I've seen this done to these unmarked "Deumer" badges.Can you show these badges?regardsCHE Edited February 15, 2008 by CHE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K. Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 I don`t know... maybeCan you show these badges?regardsCHECHE,That is not an Assmann mark seen on any original, wartime badges, in my experience. I would agree with JTW that it is likely post-war applied to improve the value of a wonderful, unmarked Deumer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Temple-West Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 CheHere?s a comparison of an original, early, pre-war Assmann ?A? mark (left) found on nickelsilver/tombak examples (?A? marked, early pre-war pieces always being wreath marked) and the mark taken from your eagle marked Deumer (right) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHE Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 John, I know the early Assmann`s ?A? mark.You have told: "This is not the first time I've seen this done to these unmarked "Deumer" badges."My question was: "Can you show these badges?" regardsCHE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Temple-West Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 CheIn short... I can not post any examples of the early Deumer series with any of the bogus marks I've seen. The only pieces I have on file are those I own... ALL unmarked.I have to ask: do you think your Observer badge is made by Assmann? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHE Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 (edited) Excuse me for my English... I can not post any examples of the early Deumer series with any of the bogus marks I've seen. The only pieces I have on file are those I own... ALL unmarked.It is a pity. I did not see an early Observer Badge with a bogus mark. I shall search such badge, it very rare.I have to ask: do you think your Observer badge is made by Assmann?Sure, this badge have made Deumer.I am not assured that it is likely post-war applied to improve the value.I have bought it as ordinary observer badge, ordinary price.This item was very dirty, I cleaned it.This mark remains a riddle for me.regardsCHE Edited February 15, 2008 by CHE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Temple-West Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Hi CheWell, I have searched through some old files (being sure that I had a post-war marked Deumer... somewhere) and found this.A very nice example of an early Deumer Ob's badge with.....A bogus "CEJ" mark. I hope this will help in solving your riddle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Temple-West Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Comparison: original "CEJ" mark (left) bogus mark (right) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERIC Posted February 16, 2008 Author Share Posted February 16, 2008 I have to agree with John and Steve here CHE - definately not an early badge mm by Assmann. The badge itself is an awesome original Deumer 1st Pattern though! I (sorry to say) can't help you out with showing a false marking on an original Deumer, but I have also seen them in collecting circles. The Deumer Observer posted here by JTW is one of those post factory marked examples I have seen before. The earliest form of marking from the Assmann firm that I know about as well is the type shown by John earlier in a side by side comparison to your marking. Here is another example of that style marking.ERIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K. Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 CHE,I have seen this 'style' of Assmann maker's mark but it is usually executed as an 'incuse' (shown in the picture here from an early LW paratrooper badge), and not just simply as the mark you show.Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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