Mervyn Mitton Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 The first of these is an Irish 'bog oak' truncheon. We have had discussions and photos of these in the past - particularly with regard to their use. I am almost certain that it was an attempt to introduce local policing - perhaps along the lines of the old British Parish Constables. The Royal Irish Constabularly were a para-military Force - and many of the public saw them as an 'enemy'. I have never found the Acts which would have allowed the setting-up of localised Constables - something for someone to research. From the many that I have in my collection - or, have seen elsewhere, this is the first to have a town name. Actually, the City of Belfast and it is dated 1901. This makes them a little later for use then I thought. Nicely carved with clovers - and since Bog Oak is fallen oaks that have been for years in the swamps (or, Bogs) - it is not only darkened, but very hard to cut - and these decorations are all by hand ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 Naming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 Detail of the intricate carving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 This is the second truncheon - it was brought in this morning from Rhodesia - but, it is of course of British origin. Many early settlers took old truncheons with them as protective items - unfortunately, they were no match for spears ! The markings show that it is a Victorian Special Constable's truncheon - and it has S 2 on the body. The Crown is Queen Victoria's and the initials VR, standing for Victoria Regina. I would date this to about 1850. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 Head Details (Looking at the enlargement - could it be 82 ? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strapper Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Mervyn, do you have any information on SAP issued knob kerrie's. For African constables during the 20's to 60's. I suppose the African version of a truncheon and mass produced like the Army and police assagai's. I would be interested if you have any knowledge of these. Regards David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 Hi - David. Yes - there were two types . The large fighting Iwisas - Knobkerries to us, were of a standard pattern. I suspect that Durban Municipality ordered them from one source - but, unless one goes through the records I don't suppose we will know for sure. There is a second pattern - much smaller - more the size of a truncheon, however , it has a knob end. Both were carried stuck in the belt. The African Police did not patrol on their own - but two usually accompanied a European officer. They had spears - made by Vickers in the UK - for serious rioting - otherwise it was just the Iwisa. This is a terrible weapon and always remember - young Zulus are trained in the art of stick fighting from about 4 years of age . They were not allowed to arrest or deal with Europeans - although could be called onto assist the white officer. They also carried handcuffs. I've just noticed that you are asking for the SAP and not just Durban. I think the same basic rules applied. I remember watching a 100 Company of African SAP charge a crowd in the 1950's - they were carrying the spears. What a wonderful weapon for close combat - they should have had them in London last week ? I will get a photo of the small Iwisa and make a post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speagle Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 VERY interesting. Thanks for posting Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strapper Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Hi Mervyn, Thanks for the very welcome info. Could this image be of one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strapper Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 It has a marking on the stik, the shaft is tapered and it seems to have wear in the area where a belt loop would have rubbed. Regards David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Shepherd Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Hi Mervyn, I have never seen one of the Irish bog oak truncheons named before. I have several in the collection from 8" to 17" and have over the years seen many more but that one of yours is a first. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 Hi - Ian. Yes, a first for me too ! Obviously the carving was done by the person it was issued to - but it clears up a lot of queries on dates etc.. I would still like to find out exactly what duties they performed ? I used to have in the collection a small version - I think it was 7 inches long ( 17.5 cm) - this was intended to be used as a Tipstaff to show the bearer's authority - so, they were more then watchmen. Your small knobkerrie certainly looks to have had a police use - the one I have is probably Durban Municipality and is older. I will post a picture. (Ann, I don't want any comments about the last sentence......................) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Shepherd Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Hi Mervyn, the 2 knobkerries were not my post but Davids. I wouldn't dare show the post to Ann. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 David - sorry , I got mixed up with the posts - not too difficult, I've had years of practise ! I would say Yes - it is probably for African Police. However, there are two other possibilities - 1. For a guard. 2. A Zulu Dancing stick - the tapered end makes me think this could be a possibility. I will get someone to photograph my example and then you can compare. Mervyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted August 26, 2011 Author Share Posted August 26, 2011 This is my example. I obtained it from Alf Boyley (Hi - Alf ) last year and he bought it in Durban. Very similar to yours apart from the tapered end. 40 cm. in total (16 ") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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