Jump to content
Gentleman's Military Interest Club
Graf

Bulgarian Order of St Alexander -Two Variatians?

Recommended Posts

I know the guy. If 2nd class is coming from him then I would stay away from it.

I bought few items from him, most were junk with some original parts, but with added newly made parts, as well as with new soft enamels. In best case you will get franken awards, with parts from several different awards, or damaged/repaired items.

I sent back most of items I bought from him, there was only one I kept.

Edited by new world

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

It does not come direct from him, however was sold somwhere then it ended up in a dealer site

Yes the Cross is bothering me a little because I do not know when these changes have been made,

The Cross is from an early emmission in silver. The Crown and the swords are from brass and from a later emmission.

The most disturbing is why the swords on the cross were cut off ..or the holes intended for the swords were repaired/closed with silver pieces...and when ..by whom

This Bulgarian dealer is on EBay. He had another shop. The shop was closed and he is operating with a new name.

I only recognised him by the items he is selling..or sold. The problem is that some of his "masterpieces" started surfacing in different dealers sites. Eighter he sold to them or people who did buy them tried to reduce the demage.

However i bought few items from Dealers sites that could be considered also as questionable ... therefore Buyer beware is valid regardless of the seller.

It is minefield and it will not get better

Edited by Graf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for posting these images. Are these always interesting things from one Bulgarian eBay vendor who usually has several jeweled pieces on offer? Curious [or not] how all the 'diamond surrounds' look the same in terms of size and rather crude finish? Sometimes his decoration cases look newly made?

I cannot imagine any 'modern time' dealer or collector removing crossed swords from a St. Alexander first class star--such stars are just too difficult to find compared with the civil, or even swords through center variety. While swords have been removed from Military Bravery insignia many times to 'achieve' the rare medical type badges, cannot imagine 'sword through center' removal given the much greater availability of civil insignia. These 'rarity' factors would seem to preclude such changes. On the other hand, if someone has 5 or 6 of the same pieces, maybe they would try to diversify.

It seems well known and documented that large stocks of unissued Bulgarian royal decorations remained in central repositories in Sofia and Varna, at least. There seem to be many 'spare parts' from the same source. Some of these have made their way onto the collector market since the late 1940s-early 1950s until present.

It also seems likely that in the past, varient Bulgarian St. Alexander insignia existed--see Werlich for a St. Alexander lst class star with swords on ring and swords in center. [He shows even a 'Red Cross Order star'!!!] Klenau offered a commander with swords and swords on ring in 1969 and again in 1973. One could construct a story that the Chancery had many unused sets with swords on ring and needed civil type sets so rather than obtain more civil sets their technicians altered swords on ring or swords sets. This certainly happened in other places including some of the German States and pieces made in the UK for other countries.

A late St. Alexander commander with swords on ring awarded to a Soviet general appears as follows: Cross directly attached to suspension loop with swords on ring component piece 'threaded' through the suspension loop. A simple typed paper conferring the award accompanies this piece. I will attempt to get an image of this pair for this thread.

Edited by 922F

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

... Are these always interesting things from one Bulgarian eBay vendor who usually has several jeweled pieces on offer? Curious [or not] how all the 'diamond surrounds' look the same in terms of size and rather crude finish? Sometimes his decoration cases look newly made?

...

Yes, that's the bad dealer mentioned earlier.

His "diamond" awards are bogus, recently made, most likely stones are not real. His award boxes are newly made.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi 922F,

Thank you for the information It will help us when making decission and be more carefull,

The so called "hybrids" are well known in the mrket -

especially The French Legion of Honour The difference is that the France History Also they were in wars all the time.

The demand for new Orders could not match the supply, therefore the makers used "spare parts' from one period with new parts to modify the Decorations with the new requirements.

This could have happened in asmaller level with the Bulgarian Orders...however when these modified Orders come from one or two well known sellers --one has to ask the question -are these operiod modifications or "butchered' good decorations to meet the current demand. You are right about the spare parts. i have seen few on sale as well.

The decorations with the Diamonds are a very big Question The new boxes as well

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

I left my opinion on the tread Fake Bulgarian Orders

it is OK To be 100% sure run the "needle test' as i described it on the other tread

Regards

Graf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello

this ist may Alexander.

Typ 1 1881 - 1886

Paris

Hi Paris

Is that a Russian or German made Saint Alexander ? Can you show the bar if not too much trouble.

Thanks.

Sincerely

Yankee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 27 באוגוסט 2011 at 14:59, Graf said:

Hi

The pictures are too big

I had to change their size

 

Graf

Picture 234.jpg

Picture 236.jpg

Picture 233.jpg

Today you can post these pictures in big resolution ? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎30‎/‎12‎/‎2011 at 15:39, Graf said:

Yes,

Ferdinand was quite interisting person

When you compare the Orders from his period with the ones from his son Boris III you can realise how much he liked the glomour

By the way he spend qite a bit from his family wealth for transforming the capital Sofia into europian city.

From the photos that exist it is obvious that sometimes he had carry significant part of his collection for display

4099.jpg

Hi Graf,

Just for info, the man on the picture is Danail Nikolaev, 1st bulgarian military man to get the rank of colonnel and godfather of Boris III. He is known as the "Patriarch of the Bulgarian Army".

Kind regards,

Vazov

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Vazov,

 

Thank you for the correction,

 

Yes It is General Nikolaev, 

 

 

Best

 

Graf        

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Take a look at this star 1st class with swords.

The star itself looks legitimate (despite some enamel damage), however engravings and stamps on the back are very unusual.

Engraving suggests German connection (German recipient?).

Stamped numbers could be inventory numbers from a museum...

What do you think?

SA_Star_1.jpg

SA_Star_2.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

I have seen this star on Auction not long ago

 

Interesting is that the engraving looks similar to the one on the back of the Military Order Star discussed in Fake Bulgarian Orders -Posts 133-135

It is possible to be inventory numbers, however we only can speculate....or added later on for better profit

Similar scenario we have with the German Iron Crosses if engraved they attract better price.Hence the temptation for later engraving

image.png.54dbc881cae92b2f52432f1636d2e7c2.png

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I completely forgot about this star we discussed earlier!

Engraving is certainly done by the same person, it's identical style and font.

Stamped numbers look the same, they are almost consecutive and are off by only 4 digits (1140 vs 1144).

Problem is that we had some major concerns about legitimacy of Mil Merit star, which puts this St Alexander star in question as well. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×