The non-gentleman Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Hi All! Well.. where do I begin. Ive been trying to nut this uniform out for ages. For all I know - I bought it off ebay from one of you! I'm relatively new to the collectors scene, so I guess that doesnt help. I use this website as a reference, so I apologise to those who see me as a new face, and I hope this doesnt come across as a "stranger" leeching your brains for help. I have been afraid to post this on here for a long time for that very reason. But now, im at a wits end, and I have nothing to loose (except a little dignity)! Here goes. All I can take from this uniform is that its some sort of prussian uniform, which i purchased out of mere curiosity. I was assured it was absolutely authentic, though i doubt that because the inner lining of the sleeves doesnt have stripes, and any obvious markings. Perhaps it was a private purchase? The litzen are unlike anything ive seen - i guess, if anything, its reminiscent of a Hauptmann rank. There are no shoulder boards, they have been removed. The litzen actually have sequins integrated into the embriodery (sequins? really!?). The cuff has gilt embroidery, but again, with a pattern Ive never seen. I dont know if this could be some sort of non-standard service uniform (train troops etc..). Is this really an imperial military uniform? or is it the product of someones clever imagination? I recognise that the pictures ive provided dont show the detail of the rear of the litzen very well - I can take more pictures if required (but i will have to do so when i get home) - im just using pictures from the old ebay listing. ps. I'd just like to clarify.. my name on here is the non-gentleman.. not because im grotty and lack gentlemanly manner, but because im a lady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The non-gentleman Posted December 5, 2011 Author Share Posted December 5, 2011 interestingly, the tails on the rear (well, not sure of what the correct terminology is).. they dont have clefts, and instead are straight cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 ps. I'd just like to clarify.. my name on here is the non-gentleman.. not because im grotty and lack gentlemanly manner, but because im a lady. Well then Bruce,..... We will just call you "Sheila" then..... :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The non-gentleman Posted December 5, 2011 Author Share Posted December 5, 2011 Hahaha! Well thats much better than calling me "Stupid." By the way, sorry for putting this in the wrong category, didn't realise till now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naxos Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Are there any labels inside? If the tunic has pockets in the inside of the tails, check for labels there too. It appears to be a 19th century Bediensteten Livree for perhaps a Kutscher (Servant tunic for a coach driver). It also could be Austrian in origin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulsterman Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 ...any chance it's a diplomats' tunic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The non-gentleman Posted December 6, 2011 Author Share Posted December 6, 2011 Oh my goodness. Thanks Naxos and Ulsterman, those are some tremendous suggestions! How on earth did you arrive at those conclusions?! Naxos - I'll check inside the tunic again for markings when I get home from work. None were immediately obvious but I didnt check the tails and I may very well have missed something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The non-gentleman Posted December 6, 2011 Author Share Posted December 6, 2011 Couldnt locate any markings of any description. There are no pockets inside this tunic. Disappointing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulsterman Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Diplomats and higher ranked bureaucrats in Europe wore full dress uniforms @ 100 years ago. I reckon by the "uhlan style" that it is a tunic for a coachman (a clothing style popular with people who have to ride horses), but all sorts of minor dutchies etc. had special uniforms. perhaps the key is the coat or arms on the buttons! Can we see those please? Who made the buttons (Manufacturers' name on back). If you do a search here you will see lots of pictures of diplomats in full dress @ 1900. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joerookery Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 This does not solve anything but does provide some examples. I believe the 1st one is a Bavarian diplomat. ps1512 by joerookery, on Flickr I am not positive but I think this guy might be part of the castle guard company of Württemberg. This was made of NCOs only and consisted of 50 people. I know they had a gala uniform which was somewhat different and more ornate however, the cord on the right side certainly looks to be the same. It is a very good question and maybe this guy is just some sort of royal house servant but I think not. I would love to find out myself. ps1465 by joerookery, on Flickr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex K Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Hi all, just bringing this thread up, attached an image of a similar uniform, doesn't look diplo to me, more military, any thoughts? regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Hi Alex! Füsilier-Regiment Nr.80 Officer´s gold Litzen! Great photo!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The non-gentleman Posted February 21, 2016 Author Share Posted February 21, 2016 fantastic pic - great find! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I´m not sure about the charactere of this officer. I assume we see a Major (I can´t recognize any star) He wears the Iron Cross with the 25 (introduced 1895 and the Centenar-Medal (introduced 1897). It also seems to be a Roter-Adler-Orden and a Kronen-orden. The Rangliste 1899 has: Major v. Wegener (II./Füs.Rgt.80) Major v. Knoblauch zu Hatzbach (III./Füs.Rgt.80) The Rangliste 1904 has: Oberstleutnant v. Schlutterbach (Staff/Füs.Rgt.80), promoted february 1902, so Major until 1902 The Rangliste 1909 has no Iron Cross wearer. Probably it is one of the officers mentioned above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedehansen Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Hi Andy, I don´t think that this is a Major. He is wearing a RAO3 mit Schleife and a Kreuz der Ehrenritter, Steckkreuz both definitely not Major class awards. Kind regards Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Which rank do you think, Andreas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn J Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Chaps, this is Oberst Franz-Otto Nowina von Axt, commanding Truppen-Übungslatz Neuhammer around 1906. Regards Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Hello Glenn! Are you sure? Do you have any infos about him according to Füs.Rgt.80? Rangliste 1899: Major I./Inf.Rgt.131 Stellenbesetzungsliste: Franz Nowina v. Axt (11.9.1852-21.2.1908) is listet as commander of Inf.Rgt. 124 (27.1.1901-7.7.1901). Rangliste 1904: prussian Oberst, Commander Inf.Rgt.124 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn J Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Hi Andreas, never more certain. He assumed command of TÜP Neuhammer after handing over command of IR 124 ( a Prussian officer attached to Württemberg). Check the Rangliste of 1905 and you will see him listed at commander of Neuhammer with the uniform of FR 80 and with a WF2b. So in fact the photo is a little earlier. Regards Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Ah, ok, Glenn, Thank you. I don´t have the RL 1905. From that period I only have 1904 and 1909. It´s a little bit strange, that he was transfered between those different units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arb Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Just to amplify on Glenn's comments and answer Andy's question regarding his connection to FR 80, here are the highlights of Nowina's career from the FR 80 Stammliste: Andy He was born 13.09.1852 in Nauen (Brandenburg) and he served in FR 80 from 01.11.1869-14.02.1895 (over 25 years!), in IR 131 as Batl. Kom. from 14.02.1895-16.06.1900 and then in IR 124, first as Oberstlt. b. St. then commander. He was placed "zur Disposition" on 14.02.1905 with the uniform of FR 80 (his original regiment). He retired completely on 18.11.1907 as a char. Gen.Maj. (Charakter received 27.01.1907) and died in Hanau on 21.02.1908. Below are his dates as a regimental commander and training area commandant: Tr.Üb.Pl. Döberitz 15.06.1907 18.11.1907 Tr.Üb.Pl. Neuhammer 14.02.1905 15.06.1907 IR 124 27.01.1903 14.02.1905 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn J Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Andreas, the photo was taken in Weingarten, presumably immediately after the announcement of his transfer back to Prussia but before the award of the WF2b a couple of weeks later, i.e. in February 1905. Here is a shot following his award of the WF2b. A couple of shots from the 1905 Rangliste and the notice in the 1905 Württemberg Militär-Wochenblatt announcing his placement zur Disposition. Thanks also Andy! Regards Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) That´ s great, Andy! That explains everything. Thanks a lot! So Glenn is right when he says, the photo was taken between 1905 and 1907. So the "bridge" at the epaulettes might have three red lines. The epaulett crecsents might be silver, because Officers "z.D." had silver crescents, if the active uniform had golden ones and conversely. Edited February 21, 2016 by The Prussian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex K Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Hi Guys, original image from Landesarchiv_Baden-Wuerttemberg_Hauptstaatsarchiv_Stuttgart_M_707_Nr.novina von axt hope this helps Alex K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayern Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Hello : the uniform is not prussian , not austrian looks a bit of nederland or swiss , and is not military Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now