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The Order of Aftab

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"Now, what the dickens does it have to do with the Chinese year of the snake?"

You see, James, you'll make a greater progress if you read more books instead of posting more and more of your arrogant comments here.

Or just type in 'Chinese-Uighur animal calendar in Persia' in any search engine.

Or just read the first column here: http://www.jstor.org...id=70&uid=4&sid=559734

Or read this at least: "The form of this calendar used by Iranians combined features of the Chinese-Uighur original with those of the lunar Hejrī and Jalālī calendars. Furthermore, during the period of seven centuries in which this calendar was in use, from the Mongol invasion until 1304 Š./1925, certain additional modifications were made." (http://www.iranicaon...s/calendars#pt2)

Do you know only on March 31, 1925 the tradition to use Chinese names of the year was abandond by Reza Pahlavi?

Now tell us once again about exclusively "Hijra, not the Chinese".

Ask me once again about where do I get "princess" from, "since there is no word for princess in Persian".

Come on, James the Enlightener!

Go, Mr. Dickens! :)

Absolutely hilarious!

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PS: If anyone needs it - all the fragments of this firman seen:

به فضل و عنایت خداوند متعال

ما مظفّرالدین شاه قاجار

شاهنشاه کلّ ممالک ایران

خودمان درباره نوّاب علیه عالیه پرنسس دکال زوجه محترمه حضرت والا

مودت و یگانگی این دو دولت متعزّی الیها را باعطای [به اعطای] یک قطعه نشان محترم آفتاب

مکلل به الماس با حمایل مخصوص آن قرین ابتهاج فرمودیم که طراز سینه اعتبار خود فرمایند

فی شهر محرم الحرام ئیلان ئیل 1323

So, the phrase is actually navvab-e 'aliyye-e a'aliyye, which is translated as Her Imperial Highness Princess. The navvab tells one that it is a prince or princess. The 'aliyye replaces vala which is used for males, and so informs one that it is a female. The a'aliyye tells you she is of the first rank of princess (Imperial Highness), as opposed to 'aliyye aghdas (second rank or Royal Highness) or simply 'aliyye (third rank or plain Highness).

Cheers,

James.

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Ultimum refugium! :lol:

Absolutely hilarious because it is a load of missunderstood gobbledegook.

The Hijra calendar is a lunar calendar. The Jalali is solar. Jalali was used for mainly agricultural and revenue collection/administrative purposes because it was more in sink with the seasonal cylces. Completely different.

We are talking here about a firman from the year 1323 Hijri. When Pahlavi changed the official calendar in 1925, Jalali had only reached 1304!

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"navvab-e 'aliyye-e a'aliyye", which is translated as "Her Imperial Highness Princess"

No, because European "prinses" added as a separate word in this firman after the Persian construction: "navvab-e 'aliyye-e a'aliyye prinses d.gal".

Please, read the text in firman again and again and again and aga...

But anyone is welcomed to translate Navvab as His/Her Imperial Highness here.

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"navvab-e 'aliyye-e a'aliyye", which is translated as "Her Imperial Highness Princess"

No, because European "prinses" added as a separate word in this firman after the Persian construction: "navvab-e 'aliyye-e a'aliyye prinses d.gal".

Please, read the text in firman again and again and again and aga...

But anyone is welcomed to translate Navvab as His/Her Imperial Highness here.

Wrong, as per usual.

The navvab tells one that it is a prince or princess. The 'aliyye replaces vala which is used for males, and so informs one that it is a female. The a'aliyye tells you she is of the first rank of princess (Imperial Highness), as opposed to 'aliyye aghdas (second rank or Royal Highness) or simply 'aliyye (third rank or plain Highness).

Princesse de Galles is a quite separate TERRITORIAL designation.

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Nasser-al-Din Shah in his diaries usually adds either title, or status or a name after Navvab: Navvab the Grand Duke, Navvab Prince, Navvab the Heir-Apparent, Navvab Nazim...

"Wrong, as per usual." - Bla-bla-bla:)

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Mitya my man...

You don't know James/Christophe at all...

There isn't a lot of point in continuing this discussion. You have a pet theory, not based on anything very much and you want to stick to it. That's fine, but not much use in advancing the discussion or contributing to the subject.

I leave you to it.

Cheers,

James

This is how this one will end too ;)

What we've got here is clear cut case of Mania Grandiosa deluted with billingsgate language.

Leave this noble gentleman alone.

Regards,

Nick

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Nasser-al-Din Shah in his diaries usually adds either title, or status or a name after Navvab: Navvab the Grand Duke, Navvab Prince, Navvab the Heir-Apparent, Navvab Nazim...

"Wrong, as per usual." - Bla-bla-bla:)

Are we discussing Nasir ud-din's diary or are we discussing this particular firman?

You are free to post the specific parts of his diary and we can blah-blah about that when the time comes.

There is a purpose in the use of the word Nawab in this firman and it is quite interesting really. The Princess of Wales enjoyed her rank through marriage, not descent. The use of Nawab helps to do just that. Although it implies that her rank is derived by male-line descent it does so only in an oblique way. The alternative, if Nawab had not been used, would have been to use three additional words, Hazrat, Shahzadeh and Khanum. However, the drawback in using those terms is that one would not have simply implied that she derived her rank from her father, one would be explicitly saying so. The use of the generic term for the caste of princes, Navvab, avoids that.

Now, it may well be that Nasir ud-din does prefix foreign titles with the word Nawab. I can quite understand why he may want to do so. If he were writing a diary for a Persian readership, he may want to convey to his readers that the people he is talking about are of the same rank as their princes. They may be unfamiliar as to what sort of animal a Grand Duke or Archduke or a Margrave may be. Just as an English writer of an earlier time may have wanted to convey to his own unknowing fellow countrymen that a Shahzada, a Shinn-O or a Phra Ong Chao was a Prince, an Imperial or a Royal Highness.

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From Andreas Thies' latest auction catalog, a beautiful set of Aftab order up for auction.

Thanks Mitya and 922F for noting this auction.

http://www.andreas-thies.de/

Remember this beautiful Aftab set up for auction ( posts #15 and #16 in this thread )? Hammered at 65,000 Euros! So adding commission fee on top of that would make this Aftab set over 103,000 US. Dollars. I would take the red Italian sports car instead. :P

Edited by Markus

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Remember this beautiful Aftab set up for auction ( posts #15 and #16 in this thread )? Hammered at 65,000 Euros! So adding commission fee on top of that would make this Aftab set over 103,000 US. Dollars. I would take the red Italian sports car instead. :P

Buy this one instead (I`d like to thank Mitya for bringing my attention to this rarity :lol:)

Obverse

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Thanks Nick! I saw that one on eBay as well being sold by Najafcoins. Dang that one sure is ugly compared to the other Aftab orders posted. The visage looks like it has a bad hangover and is subject to spousal abuse.

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The visage looks like it has a bad hangover and is subject to spousal abuse.

Maybe this is work of a very private workshop? :whistle:

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HILARIOUS!

It even beats the "original" Chinese Warlord medals with their dead, staring eyes.

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Wait, Najafs?!

How much is he asking for? If it's Najafs, I'm guessing $20,000 ... $30,000 ... $40,000 ??

I see an arbitrage opportunity with ebay :lol:

Edited by drclaw

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Wait, Najafs?!

How much is he asking for? If it's Najafs, I'm guessing $20,000 ... $30,000 ... $40,000 ??

I see an arbitrage opportunity with ebay :lol:

The asking price is $5,750 or best offer. This is very reasonable for Najaf! However one's sense of beauty would have to be quite warped to appreciate this piece.

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You guys really have stony hearts!

Somebody worked pretty hard to create this piece of art!!!

Still waiting for your best offer ;):whistle:

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Somebody worked pretty hard to create this piece of art!!!

A cross eyed, colour-blind albino dwarf, working in a darkened cave, by the light of a guttering candle, using a Crayola set left over from his 6th birthday ...

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A cross eyed, colour-blind albino dwarf, working in a darkened cave, by the light of a guttering candle, using a Crayola set left over from his 6th birthday ...

Oh, I see now...

Work of magical creature it was!

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Check out this gorgeous piece from Spada collection (thanks again Markus! :cheers:)

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Check out this gorgeous piece from Spada collection (thanks again Markus! :cheers:)

Now that is a beautiful face and high quality workmanship! LOL!

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