christerd Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Hi all, I bought this ribbonbar with EK II- BMVK III mKr- HEK- KVK II- Wurt LDa- OstM From What I can see only 49 Wurtembergers got the BMVK III with Crown and only three was in Landwehr Regiments Uffz Gabler from LIR 119 Uffz Christian Nufeld from LIR 123 Uffz Fritz Wischedel from LIR 123 I cant find that anyone of them was killed during first world war so all three are possible suspects for the ribbon bar. Now , if there only was a list of all Ostmedal awards (or KVK II ) Does anyone have any Regiment story for LIR 119 and LIR 123 ? I know its a looong shot but maybe something is mentioned about getting awards from Bavaria ..... At least a nice ribbon bar to a fighter ? in two wars . Christer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) Interesting in that we have the Prussian EK and the Bavarian BMVK yet nothing from his home state of Württemberg but the LDa. A really nice bar though. Edited June 25, 2012 by Wild Card Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudius Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Hello Christer; The KVK after the Hindenburg Cross? The bar has a nice, with even soiling and wrapping that is thoroughly expected so it is with respectable hesitation that I dare mention having a black light shown on the back threads. Next I would carefully examine the hook for the pin. How is it formed? How is it attached? Although not conclusive, it would help to look for similarities and differences with known examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hunter Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Hi Christer, I believe the medal bar was for sale too. Did you get it also? Best wishes Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 The list of EM and NCO awards to Württembergers is probably far from being complete. Are you sure this must be Württemberg award? Could'n it rather be some WW2 era Romanian award, with "close enough" ribbon? Without seeing the matching medal bar, that'd be my best guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christerd Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 Hi Claudius and Matt , Nothing with black light , the hook is rounded and looks like it soldered to the back of the ribbon bar plate. Looks and feels good. The feeling you can´t describe but after handling a lot of ribbon bars you get a kind of seventh sense for the bad ones The medalbar was also for sale but I did´t get it . The placement of the KVK is wrong but I have seen that before , maybe he thought his War" medals was more worth than a "behind front KVK" ? I got a Rgt story from LIR 123 , but it would be extreme lucky if anything is mentioned about a low ranking soldier like this. Christer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christerd Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 Hallo Sascha, It could be a Romanian award I guess, But the only one I know wich has some likeness to the ribbon is the order of the Star wich is a quite high award for a German private or NCO. But of course the medals on the medal bar could also have been exchanged so the III class BMVK maybe was a I class ? And the Wurt DA was in fact something else ? This ribbon bar will probably end up in the "unknown" part of my collection together with so many others that will keep me avake in long winter nights :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev in Deva Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) If a WW2 period Romanian ribbon it is a ribbon for "Military Virtue" this ribbon can be found on the Order of the Star of Romania, and the Order of the Crown of Romania, in place of the normal ribbon's and its also featured on the Romanian Military Virtue Cross (off the top of my head for Non-Commissioned Officers & Men.) The "Military Virtue" ribbon is in itself a distinction that the award was made for being in direct combat / contact with an enemy. The "Military Virtue" is also found backing the Romanian Wound badge for WW1. Somewhere in my collection is a postcard with an Officer from Württemberg sporting a Bavarian MVK ribbon for his efforts in collecting Church bells for the war effort. I have scanned the details:- Kevin in Deva. Edited June 26, 2012 by Kev in Deva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Gentlemen, I think that you will find that the similar Romanian award ribbon has two blue side stripes. http://www.omsa.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=4310 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudius Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Hallo Sascha, It could be a Romanian award I guess, But the only one I know wich has some likeness to the ribbon is the order of the Star wich is a quite high award for a German private or NCO. But of course the medals on the medal bar could also have been exchanged so the III class BMVK maybe was a I class ? And the Wurt DA was in fact something else ? This ribbon bar will probably end up in the "unknown" part of my collection together with so many others that will keep me avake in long winter nights If it is a Romanian award, the ribbon that would most closely match would be the; Order of the Romanian Crown -Type 2. A WWII award. The Knight's Cross came with crown and crossed swords. However, if the original ribbon bar maker didn’t have a Romanian Order of the Crown ribbon and he used Württemberg LS ribbon, he would have likely put a crown and crossed swords device to indicate the Order. (Another one like the one he used for the BMVKwS would have done nicely.) Furthermore, if a foreign award, even if a gallantry award, I would have imagined that he would put it after the Fatherland’s Ost-Medal. My conclusion is that the ribbon in fifth place, right or wrong, is meant to represent the Württemberg LS medal. Christer: From that short list of BMVKIII with Swords Landwehr recipients….can you see if they received any other (Württemberg) awards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Gentlemen, I think that you will find that the similar Romanian award ribbon has two blue side stripes. http://www.omsa.org/....php?photo=4310 That is the statute ribbon. The ribbon which is red with a single blue edge stripe is not the ribbon of the Order of the Star. It is the ribbon of the Cross of Military Virtue (Crucea Virtutea Militara). Similar to Austro-Hungarian and Bulgarian practice with their bravery ribbons, this ribbon was used for the Order of the Star to indicate wartime bravery awards. For enlisted men, the Cross of Military Virtue was the highest bravery award. It outranked the other enlisted awards such as the Faithful Service Cross, Faithful Service Medal and Medal for Steadfastness and Loyalty. I find it hard to imagine that a retread World War I veteran most likely not in the frontlines (KVK2X but no EK2 Spange) would have earned it. So it is most likely the Württemberg award. For what it is worth, in going over various Bavarian records, I have encountered a number of non-native Bavarians who had previously served in other contingents, but when the war began they were living or working in Bavaria. So they reported to the local Meldeamt to sign up, and ended up in a Bavarian contingent. So the Württemberg DA doesn't necessarily mean he served in WW1 in a Württemberg contingent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hunter Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 My conclusion is that the ribbon in fifth place, right or wrong, is meant to represent the Württemberg LS medal. And this I believe is what was on the medal bar but I cannot recall if the medals were sewn down or on hooks. Best wishes Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 That is the statute ribbon. The ribbon which is red with a single blue edge stripe is not the ribbon of the Order of the Star... Got it Dave. I completely missed that one, thanks. One point - if we want to go to the fine points, between the 4.5 mm blue stripe and the very edge of the ribbon, the Württemberg ribbon has a 2 mm red side stripe (like the one on the subject ribbon bar which, of course, is scaled down); while the blue stripe on the Romanian ribbon appears to go right to the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 So it is most likely the Württemberg award. For what it is worth, in going over various Bavarian records, I have encountered a number of non-native Bavarians who had previously served in other contingents, but when the war began they were living or working in Bavaria. So they reported to the local Meldeamt to sign up, and ended up in a Bavarian contingent. So the Württemberg DA doesn't necessarily mean he served in WW1 in a Württemberg contingent. Thanks, that's a way more likely explanation than my rough Romania guess. But anyway, as said, the Krause book is probably not complete, especially on EM's and NCO's awards. I can hardly imagine a Württemberg soldier getting a "foreign" award would have missed a Württmberg one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christerd Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 Here is the medal bar , seller pic Christer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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