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Graf

FAKE BULGARIAN ORDERS ON THE MARKET

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that's correct, making hard enamel is elaborate process and most fakers can't do it. Checking enamel should be first thing you do when considering awards. 

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Hello Gentlemen,

How about this example from eBay.de?

The right sword is on the left one, whether it should be the other way around. Also the handles of the swords are not as they should be...

Do you thing it’s a fake? Or just upgraded star without swords?

Best regards,

VazovA659D2A1-D910-4F61-8D63-84C6DB9DF02A.thumb.jpeg.f3a52a60f123cd494cae6ad83f06aa78.jpeg

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Any reverse marking?  Center looks good.   Swords of this type readily available & these not precisely aligned or contured....maybe an upgrade 

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I saw this Star on eBay Germany

The seller is claiming that it is Rothe Here is the back of the Star I cannot see clear Rothe marking For me the marking on the pin looks more like "800' for silver Many times the sellers just make a claims to make the item more saleable  I am more inclined th think it is German made if there are no any clear makers marking

The Star looks OK to me It is not unusual some of the makers to use parts from other Orders or the awarded person requested the Star to be modified. It is very difficult to say whether this was done at a later stage for a better profit, although this is also possibility The patina is the same. As one of the members suggested a very close look with magnification will be very useful The way the swords are attached is very important

I have few items in my collection that look odd,  however I accepted them because i could not find any signs for a later modifications or/and "upgrades"

 

Here is the back of the Star from eBay Germany and also some of my items One is also St Alex Star It is French type, however the swords were from a German States Order commonly used by Godet I did buy that Star in Germany from a reputable dealer few years ago. The other is French made Knight of St Alex and a third is the mini of the Bravery Order by Godet

This seller on eBay Germany is also selling a Commander of the Order of Military Merit The Order is OK with only one problem -the back central medallion is missing and is replaced with a bronze disk with a name This is questionable  The Price  200+ Euro suggests that not serious buyers kept away from it

 

Graf

 

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IMHO the star is not legit.

It is real star, however the swords and how they are attached don't look right to me. Most likely swords were added later.

This type with swords on top is very rare and would cost significantly more compared to common plain stars, so economically it makes sense to buy swords, attach them to the star and double your money.

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Hi New World,

I agree with you the Star is OK only the swords are questionable Close examination can help however every collector has to make their own mind whether to have such item in their collection Only the awarded person or/and the few later owners of the Star will know the answer Who knows?

Original swords are usually attached with a rivet or a nut

I also have seen original swords attached in a wrong way Do we have to reject the Star or take it as maker mistake or the swords came off and re-attached wrong way

Anyway the Star on eBay Germany has to be looked with a question in mind.

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I'll have to look at my star with swords, in the meantime here's correct one from dealer listing.

As you can see, the swords are as they should be and there's a rivet attaching them to the star.

 

SA_2cl_Swords_1.jpg

SA_2cl_Swords_2.jpg

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I just spotted this 2nd Class of The Order for Military merit on ebay.de

The Cross is OK, however the Star looks very strange

In my opinion it is one of those Stars with new enamel and someone tried ti age it and something went utterly  wrong

Judge by yourself

 

Best

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not exactly fake medal, star actually looks fine, but Godet and other stamps are very suspect.

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Edited by new world

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Hello Gentlemen,

What do you think, fake or not?

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Thanks for sharing your thoughts !

Best,

Vazov

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For sale by a dealer:

Военна ордена на смелостта, Гранд Крос. Instituted in 1880. Grade I with 1915-1917. In silvered bronze with red and white enamels, with four glass stones embedded in each handle of the crossed swords, measuring 48.5 mm (w) x 48.5 mm (h), vertical pinback, intact enamels, scattered silvering wear, near extremely fine.

Note that stones were attached to already worn award (see how silver plating is worn out and bronze metal is visible right under the stones). This is a sure sign that stones were applied later, after this medal was worn quite a bit. 

This was done long after this was awarded, likely it is a modern addition, to increase value of the award.  

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Hi New World,

 

I agrree with your points

Those stones are just glued to the swords handles..and they look very new and modern

!00% recently "upgraded" item It was not a good job at all

This is either fantasy upgrade or as you suggest to increase the value

The question is who did it a collector or a Dealer ?

Unfortunately, there are still many collectors out there who are not members of any forum and they do not know the traps and tricks on the market They simply trust the "reputable' dealers  Note how the item is described. Buyer Be Ware rules apply.

 

 

Edited by Graf

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It doesn't really matter who did the "enhancement", what matters is that it was not official and does not belong to this award.

It certainly does not add to value of it, quite the opposite - it decreases the value.

Dealer put this on an auction and attached description to it which implied that this is some sort of improvement. The price is already above the price for what these crosses normally sell for.   

 

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Hi New Word,

 

For me it does matter.

If the Dealer did it it is too bad If a lonely collector did it it point to creating purely  fantasy item

Any way No point arguing here  Our role is to detect any fakes or unusual items and list it for discussions and to warn the members

Best

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On 10/12/2018 at 16:28, Graf said:

Hi New Word,

 

For me it does matter.

If the Dealer did it it is too bad If a lonely collector did it it point to creating purely  fantasy item

Any way No point arguing here  Our role is to detect any fakes or unusual items and list it for discussions and to warn the members

Best

"If the Dealer did it it is too bad If a lonely collector"

Whoever did it - those stones do not belong there.

I think we can agree this was not done by the person receiving the award. This was given for acts of bravery and owner was an officer, this type of modification would result in jokes and mockery from his fellow officers. 

 

 

 

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We all agree - Bad recent work

I agree the Officer will not add those fake Diamonds to a already worn Order.

Any way  item was sold

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Really bad fake, some sort of old star base with modern parts attached. 

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Edited by new world

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