ilieff Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Apart from orders, fakers are also doing medals (from the rare or mid-rare range). Look at these two examples which were being offerred in a Bulgarian online auction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul wood Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Ilieff I am surprised they passed muster they shouldn't fool any serious collector. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 That is a problem, . Till very recently the fakers 's focus was the high end items. Now obviously they are going to low level items. I hope they will not mass produce them I have heard that there is an online Auction site in Bulgaria which is only for the local market ...and that there are many fakes offered there as originals In September i went to Sofia, as part of trip to the Balkans. I went to the market around St. Alexander Nevski Cathedral, because i had been told that there they sell Militaria. i was not very impressed, because the items on offer were mainly very cheaply made reproductions, that cannot fool any collector. Well , we have to keep our eyes wide open. Graf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilieff Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Yet another one. In the product description it's mentioned that there have been minor repairs to the enamel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new world Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Copy of early St Alexander star 1st class. Was sold last year as a copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new world Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 fake Bravery reverse of fake Bravery more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.Vazov Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Hi new world, I wonder if this is a fake or a low quality republican emission of the order. We know that during the second phase of WWII they've started to produce the bravery orders locally and their quality have significantly fallen. What do you think? Best, Vazov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
922F Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 New World, Could you determine whether this lst class has hard or soft enamel?? Don't recall ever seeing such pitting as on the reverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.Vazov Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Hi 922F, I think that what we see is not a 1 grade but a 3 grade 1 class of republican emission (fake or real). Best, Vazov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
922F Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Yes, I misspoke, I intended lst class of 3rd degree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new world Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 @Vazov: Look at the quality of this item, it's very low for such high-level award. @922F: I don't own this award, so can't answer your question about hard/soft enamel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted March 28, 2017 Author Share Posted March 28, 2017 In my opinion New Word is correct. It is Fake. The overall quality is extremely poor for a very high class decoration. The combination of new looking poor quality decoration is an alarm bell ringing loudly It is known that after 1944 for the high classes "left overs" from mainly the emission with the 3 dots were used Only decorations for 4th class 1st Grade and 2nd Grade were made after the War The high Classes were modified to fit the new regulations by replacing/modifying the central medallions and removing or replacing the crown with a wreath In some cases orders from the 7 dots emission were used and adapted I remember that the sellers who used to sell on Ebay Fake Bulgarian decorations from the regency and the Republican periods used for excuse for their poor quality the fact that they were made in private Bulgarian shops Do not be fooled . In some cases we have to make our mind only by looking the pictures and we will not have chance to return the Decorations if we discover that their fake. If in doubt keep away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilieff Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 I agree with Graf that it's the first impression that's the key. The third class first grade shown above is obviously a fake though I admire the time and effort which fakers put into their Frankensteins. I hope that no collectors purchase these items. Unfortunately, a certain number of these fakers are probably reading forums too, so I'd suggest that we don't give them any more details as to how they can improve their 'work'. Fingers crossed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted March 29, 2017 Author Share Posted March 29, 2017 Hi Ilieff, It is most important to warn the collectors. The Fakers will master their jobs, however if they have to deal with educated public it will make their task very difficult ..and may discourage them Hopefully. The WW2 German Iron Cross is the most faked one. There are several books how do detect fakes, which help the collectors and fakes alike. However, once the collectors are more knowledgeable they are more difficult to be tricked. That is why i started rhis Forum to help the new collectors of Bulgarian Orders and decorations to avoid mine and other "old' collectors mistakes Yes, , Fingers crossed eyes open Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new world Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 On 3/23/2017 at 06:44, new world said: fake Bravery reverse of fake Bravery Actually, this same fake Bravery was discussed an one of the forums back in 2008. I was able to find photos from 2008. Photos are not as good as the ones I posted couple days ago, but you can still see it's the same cross... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new world Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Fake 4th class 1st grade Bravery. Was selling by the same person as fake 3rd class from previous post. Apparently was made by the same faker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul wood Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Thank god they are still pretty horrible. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new world Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 On 4/4/2017 at 09:42, paul wood said: Thank god they are still pretty horrible. Paul well, these fakes were from 9 years ago, they are probably much better now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted April 30, 2017 Author Share Posted April 30, 2017 Alert Two Fakes on Ebay First is 1st Class Star of the Order of Military Merit with War Decoration Very well known Fake with soft enamel plus the letters are very thin and superficial -already are 'fading away' You can see the defects in the enamel as well I also suspect that the last picture of the reverse is borrowed from somewhere else Second is 2nd Class Star of the same Order It is a shocker - especially the reverse The Fakers even included French hallmarks and maker marks - all wrong The seller is from Hungary He claims that they come from his personal collection. No detailed description of the items No returns Warning signs that he is aware of the nature of the Stars looked his history -not a single Order sold or bought before this sale ???!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new world Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 (edited) the reverse of the 2nd class is especially hideous! In all my years collecting I've never seen such marks and such bad quality if the reverse. Front looks decent though. Edited May 1, 2017 by new world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted May 1, 2017 Author Share Posted May 1, 2017 Hi Yes That i said is a shocker The marks from left to right are supposed to be a French maker mark,, French hallmark for Silver "boar head" and the 950 mark is not supposed to be there at all -all are wrong I suspect the front looks decent because they might some original parts or copied them very good. What is your opinion for the picture of the reverse of the 1st Class Star I still think it was borrowed from somewhere else It does not match the firs pictures...also It look quite familiar to me I might have seen it somewhere else I sent a mail to the seller to advise the potential buyers So far he has not answered, neither he added any additional notes He knows what he is doing, that is why he did not specify that the Stars are Original. Plus the details are next to nothing. There are already bidders Poor Suckers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new world Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 Pics for 1st class reverse are blurry, it's impossible to tell anything from them. I don't like front pics of the 1st class though. Of course it's preferable to hold this star in hand and inspect it carefully, however most of the times we don't have such luxury. Based on the troubling signs seen in the pics it's better to stay away from this seller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickstrenk Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 (edited) I hope,collegues from Bulgaria will advise.Is it original or fake?Probably unawarded? Edited May 1, 2017 by nickstrenk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binky Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 16 hours ago, Graf said: Hi Yes That i said is a shocker The marks from left to right are supposed to be a French maker mark,, French hallmark for Silver "boar head" and the 950 mark is not supposed to be there at all -all are wrong I suspect the front looks decent because they might some original parts or copied them very good. What is your opinion for the picture of the reverse of the 1st Class Star I still think it was borrowed from somewhere else It does not match the firs pictures...also It look quite familiar to me I might have seen it somewhere else I sent a mail to the seller to advise the potential buyers So far he has not answered, neither he added any additional notes He knows what he is doing, that is why he did not specify that the Stars are Original. Plus the details are next to nothing. There are already bidders Poor Suckers I contacted the seller via eBay and got the following response: It is your right to express your opinion. The stars have been restored and that's why they look like this. I see you have doubts about the stars and you do not need to bid in the auction Wouldn't dream of bidding in the auction! This is rather concerning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted May 1, 2017 Author Share Posted May 1, 2017 (edited) Hi Binky, Who ever is the seller he or She has to advice the potential buyers about the changes to the Stars It is blunt wrong not to let the buyers about any alterations As collector we have to be honest with our fellow collectors I recently sold 3rd Class 2nd Grade Bravery order i described it including any repairs.. That I felt is the correct action. The Buyer form Ukraine re sold it with asmal profit without mentioning the repairs It is wrong. Regarding the 1st Class Star if you are the seller please test the enamel it looks modern soft one and the anorexic letters are typical of the modern copies Also the murky picture on the reverse, compared with the relatively good ones of the obverse brings more doubt about the Star The 2nd Class -I already expressed my opinion I would never bid on such item. I had my bad experience as beginner and that is why i started this forum to help the fellow collectors to avoid my mistakes, especially the beginners Graf Edited May 1, 2017 by Graf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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