Graf

FAKE BULGARIAN ORDERS ON THE MARKET

160 posts in this topic

I'm sorry to see forgers being successful, perhaps the unwary buyers will discover the deception and return the goods (despite the no return policy). If nothing else, they can leave negative feedback. 

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Hi Binky,

There are other scenarios as well :

Many buyers are not members of any clubs like this one and they will keep the items till they sell them and then they will find the truth Some will find sooner and will try to recover the loss by re-selling them

This guy was very smart , he knew what he was doing, therefore he had no return policy. Also the Ebay policy for fakes is that the buyer has to provide a certificate from a reputable expert that the item is fake..and then still it is not guaranty that he/she will get the money back

The moral of the story is if you see such a sale you better pass it

Keep away if the seller does have very vague details of the items, does not specify if the item is Original and has No return policy Always ask questions before commit yourself

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On 5/17/2017 at 13:01, new world said:

Here's another candidate for discussion. Sold on eBay couple years ago.

What do you think?

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This St Alexander 1st class cross I posted couple days ago was reported by another collector.

It turned out to be a 'constructor', or an attempt to upgrade from 3rd class. Center piece with red enamel on front was fake, just like Graf reported in earlier posts. Red enamel was soft one. Fairly simple upgrade and faker offers an award which sells for double of what 3rd class sells. 

 

Furthermore, that collector also reported that the base of the cross was complete fabrication:

'The whole cross part (enamel and base/arms) is fake, the crown is good, the swords addition is fake too, very well done though! The enamel is cold, but unfortunately crappy pics don't tell you that'.

This is scary that fakers can make such good looking cross!!! You have to hold it in your hand to determine it's not good!

The seller of this fake cross was 'riaerica2000' on eBay, so beware!

 

 

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Here's another suspect.

One can't be 100% sure without holding the award in his hands, however low quality of this cross and lack of details makes me very concerned.

Look at the details of the swords and areas under red enamel - I've never such poor details, normally details are very crisp.

Crown could be OK though, at least from the pics quality seems to be as usual.

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ID: 155   Posted (edited)

Another problematic Bulgarian award sold by a major dealer.

Several issues with this set:

Problem 1. Metal circle on the reverse of the cross. 

Circle looks too big and too thick, out of proportion and in the shape I've never seen on the At Alexander crosses. Gold plating is not on the reverse center piece.

It also appears it's made from different metal (brass) than the rest of the cross (gilded silver).

Note how white enameled center is mis-alligned.

My guess is that that part was lost and later replaced by a custom made piece.

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Problem 2. Cross and crown are not put together correctly, cross is turned 180 degrees.

Looking at the photo from previous post and one below one can see some warning signs:

- Enameled ribbons on the crown and back side of the cross are on the same side, cross was turned around 180,

- Signs of tempering on the loop which connects cross and crown.

Clearly the cross and the crown were separated and then put together again.

Possible constructor, where cross and crown are from different sets. 

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Edited by new world

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ID: 156   Posted (edited)

Problem 3. 2nd class set was sold as Grand Cross

Dealer was advertising this as Grand Cross, while this is 2nd class of the award.

1. Star is from 2nd class - there's no flat streamer with spiky edge around the center.

2. Size of the cross, from the listing we learn that 'Cross, in silver gilt and enamels, 50.0mm'. That's the size of 2nd class cross, Grand Cross if larger.

3. No size of provided for the star. I think this is intentionally withheld, as it would have been obvious by the smaller star that this is lower class set.

Despite above three points dealer puts this set on a sash ribbon (should have been on a neck ribbon) and sells it for the price of a Grand Cross - $5900 (obviously much higher that he would have been asking and getting for 2nd class set).

This set is currently marked as SOLD on dealer's web site. Someone bought it with above mentioned issues and mis-advertised as Grand Cross. Someone paid too much...

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Edited by new world

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ID: 157   Posted (edited)

On 17/10/2016 at 09:31, Graf said:

Hi New World,

 

Yes, you are right only the 3rd Class 1st Grade Star is fake -It has Diamonds added to it to look Luxury Model.

It means that a Good Order was butchered for sinister purpose

It's a silly question, but the Order should have True Diamonds, right? Then the farce would be discovered shortly after the buyer request to check with a specialist.

Cheers

Lambert

Edited by lambert

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ID: 158   Posted (edited)

We will never know it those had real diamonds. Value of this awards is not with diamonds, it's extremely rare by itself.

The farce would have been discovered much earlier if potential buyer checked these fakes against photos of known examples. I don't think these were ever sold. Any serious buyer would perform due diligence before committing so much money to the purchase.

 

 

Edited by new world

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On 04/06/2017 at 08:45, new world said:

We will never know it those had real diamonds. Value of this awards is not with diamonds, it's extremely rare by itself.

The farce would have been discovered much earlier if potential buyer checked these fakes against photos of known examples. I don't think these were ever sold. Any serious buyer would perform due diligence before committing so much money to the purchase.

 

 

indeed. Just a thought of mine, I doubt they were real diamonds.

Cheers

Lambert

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Hi Lambert,

 

The problem is that thre are collectors on the market who do not communicate with other fellow collectors and they buy such items believing that they are original. They even do not bother to check the diamonds. Even the diamonds were real , they could be very low grade ones. As far  as  I remember the Bravery "Set" was on sale for over 10.000 US$ The value of low quality diamonds plus the 1941 Orders cold be around 2.000 - 3,000 US$ at the best. Stl profit of 7.000.  ,,, and this is the best scenario if the Star is Original and the Diamonds real

This is not the only Luxury set offered by dishonest sellers. I remember few of them. There was a St Alexander Star offered by seller fro turkey. I saw the Star on his site before it was turned into "Luxury" with Diamonds The Star had specific marks that I noticed even after the improvement The price jumped nearly tenfold It was sold on Ebay.

. Do not spend hard earned money for questionable items... or they will be yours for ever with no value

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