kaigunair Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) Thanks for all the info. The bukosho in question was the one you posted pics of in post 20 and 21, the slack-baked one. I originally posted about this particular medal in http://gmic.co.uk/in...ge__hl__bukosho. I'm not sure if the comparison is to show that the bukosho pictured in 20/21 is of lesser quality, or if in the jpn badge collecting community this slack-baked back version is a verified authentic version of the bukosho. The concern was that the level of quality (the lack thereof) indicated that this could be a reproduction. I am also alittle confused about the initial posting. Are the pics of the example in posts 6 - 9 supposed to be of another example of a known reproduction bukosho, or is this supposed to be an original that the bolo tie post-war reproduction is being compared against? If the example in post 6-9 is a known reproduction, it is very much like the bukosho I had and I would be convinced once and for all that the slack-baked example is a post war reproduction. Edited August 9, 2012 by kaigunair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) I'm not sure if the comparison is to show that the bukosho pictured in 20/21 is of lesser quality, or if in the jpn badge collecting community this slack-baked back version is a verified authentic version of the bukosho. The concern was that the level of quality (the lack thereof) indicated that this could be a reproduction. I created this comparison with one purpose - to demonstrate that "it was his opinon that the dies were being used and worn down...die marks in the back were one way he felt he could identify period buko-sho badges" is beneath criticism. I am also alittle confused about the initial posting. Are the pics of the example in posts 6 - 9 supposed to be of another example of a known reproduction bukosho, or is this supposed to be an original that the bolo tie post-war reproduction is being compared against? If the example in post 6-9 is a known reproduction, it is very much like the bukosho I had and I would be convinced once and for all that the slack-baked example is a post war reproduction. Actually I posted badge (in posts 6-9) as original I think yours badge is original too. BTW, what these guru`s said about your badge? ;) Edited August 9, 2012 by JapanX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 If you have any doubts - you can go and compare your (or mine) piece with one in Peterson book. They are identical Regards, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaigunair Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 (edited) Thanks JapanX. Appreciate the opinion. The bukosho is actually back with one of its former owners (who has several examples), so it all worked out. Was just a question that has been nagging at me for a while, and am relieved that a more definitive answer has been reached. So now if I run across another bukosho with the rough stamping, I'll jump on it! Edited August 10, 2012 by kaigunair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 (edited) An example of this is the more recent buko-sho discussion which was really helpful and came to a pretty convincing conclusion, much different than the past ones I've had on this and other forums. Hmm... Well, check this out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bukochosho "Exactly 89 Bukosho medals were awarded during the eight months it was active." No kidding?! Looks like the source of this exactness is Tillman, Barrett (2002). Above and beyond: the aviation Medals of Honor. Smithsonian Institution Press. p.8 Cool! I wonder what we should do now with all these documents for Bukosho badges that have three-digit numbers (like 2XX for example) Cheers, Nick Edited August 10, 2012 by JapanX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaigunair Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 That number is definately off. I believe the number of 89 might only refer to pilots who were awarded the bukosho, not the total. Wouldn't be the first time wiki info was off! Btw, I did have 2 of those Mindanao bukosho certificates which were handwritten and issued in the field. They were taken from a prisoner in a POW camp, and were found in a leather bag along with pencils, hanko stamps, toothbrush, etc. additional paperwork included Kia and Mia listings of the supply unit. This was all very sad stuff, as you could see exactly the attrition rate of that unit's experience. As the certificates were hand written, they definitely led precedence to the idea that the bukosho was a field award. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 As the certificates were hand written, they definitely led precedence to the idea that the bukosho was a field award. Indeed! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickey Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 hi all for your info bukosho badge going on the collectors guild website (usa) for $7736 not in mint condition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 (edited) hi all for your info bukosho badge going on the collectors guild website (usa) for $7736 not in mint condition Yep, I know this badge Mickey $7736 for pretty salty (to put it very mildly - 40% of black paint and 30% of gold gilt from obverse are gone, marks of corrosion on reverse and no box) 1st class?! No wonder they couldn't sell it for a loooong time .... By the way, this 1st class was made by same stamp that was used in making my 2nd class Cheers, Nick Edited August 11, 2012 by JapanX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 Their own description "PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION: Roughly, 2", (5cm), tall, 1 5/8", (4cm), wide, die struck steel construction, first class badge with black, silver and gilt finishes is in the form of a stylized cross flory with a raised, smooth silver washed outer edge encompassing a recessed pebbled background field. The obverse center of the badge features a smaller, embossed, silver washed, stylized cross flory superimposed with a silver washed, vertical spear with an embossed, gilt washed, stylized banner superimposed on the spear with embossed Kanji characters, translated as, Military Merit. The solid, silver washed reverse of the badge has a crimped, soldered hinge on an elongated oval base plate, a wide, tapering vertical pin and a heavy soldered catch also on a elongated oval base plate all intact. The reverse also has embossed Kanji characters which translate as Distinguished Military Service Award. The badge retains about 70% of it’s silver wash, about 45% of it’s black wash and about 30% of it’s gilt wash. The badge also shows some minor pitting which may have been a flaw in the original dies. Rare, late war, Japanese gallantry award." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fukuoka Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 (edited) Whew! Lots of words to beef up the damaged badge. Reminds me of American restaurant menus, chock full o' adjectives. Ever seen those? Edited August 11, 2012 by fukuoka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 Whew! Lots of words to beef up the damaged badge. Reminds me of American restaurant menus, chock full o' adjectives. Ever seen those? Ha! Actually it was a short version BACKGROUND: In the late 1800's Japan started an aggressive policy of modernization which included imperialistic, colonial, expansion in order to secure the natural resources needed for the modernization plans. A politically fragmented China, resulting in an ineffective, central government, permitted the Japanese to conduct limited, localized conflicts on Chinese territory and by the early 1930’s Japan had annexed Korea and controlled the Chinese region of Manchuria. On July 7TH 1937 the Marco Polo Bridge, (or alternatively, the Lugou Bridge), Incident erupted into a full scale war between Japan and China. By early 1941 the Japanese occupied large sections of central and northern China although they didn’t have a firm hold on these areas as a result of the mountainous terrain which allowed the Chinese to conduct guerilla warfare and acts of sabotage behind Japanese lines. With this stalemate in China and embargoes imposed by Western nations, primarily the United States, Great Britain, Australia and the Dutch holdings of the Netherlands East Indies the Japanese were faced with potential economic defeat and loss of the occupied territories in China which resulted in the Japanese decision to form a plan of expansion in the south Pacific to take over the British and Dutch territories securing a new supply of natural resources. With this plan of expansion into the south Pacific the Imperial Japanese government, believing that the Americans would come to the assistance of the British, also decided on an advance into the eastern Pacific in an attempt to take American territories by surprise and force the United States into negotiating a separate peace. This mistaken belief led to the Japanese attack on the Americans at Pearl Harbor and eventually to the Japanese defeat in August 1945. Interestingly Japan traditionally reserved gallantry awards for those already killed in battle but with the dire war situation in late 1944 a Japanese Imperial Edict introduced the Rikugun Bukosho, (Distinguished Military Service Medal), in two classes, on December 7TH 1944, for award to recognize gallantry and service in an attempt to raise morale amongst the hard pressed Japanese Military. The Japanese view of gallantry, heroism and self sacrifice would be considered very severe to the West and acts with suicidal consequences were relatively common and death in battle was seen as the highest honor amongst the Japanese military. Although the actual criteria for bestowal of a Distinguished Military Service Medal is unknown certain examples are known such as the award of a 1ST class Distinguished Military Service Medal to Sumi Tadao for shooting down four U.S. B29 bombers and damaging an additional three, over Osaka on a single night in March 1945. Other examples were awarded for ramming enemy aircraft with the Japanese pilots, (hopefully), parachuting to safety. Of Note: Due to the late introduction date and the severe actions required for award of the Distinguished Military Service Medal, it can be assumed that few were actually bestowed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fukuoka Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Ugh. I guess you have to give something extra for that price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 8, 2012 Author Share Posted September 8, 2012 Check out this piece! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 8, 2012 Author Share Posted September 8, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 8, 2012 Author Share Posted September 8, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 8, 2012 Author Share Posted September 8, 2012 This piece is currently on sale at eBay http://www.ebay.com/...=item2a228795a5 The seller is confident that "It was mostly awarded for pilots for their battles against B-29s over the Japanese homeland" ... Nice angle with "pre-printed draft of Henry Sakaida's research that later became the book in Japanese". Bukoushou Badge = Japanese Medal of Honor?!? That`s something new! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 8, 2012 Author Share Posted September 8, 2012 Another fancy viewpoint. Funniest thing - the seller`s badge is made by different stamp than example in the book :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 8, 2012 Author Share Posted September 8, 2012 Looks like the asked price is much more than $1225 Cheers, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaigunair Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 I'm sure that prices will be higher in no part due to this thread. Guess that its good jpn medals are getting more exposure, especially due to all your great posts Nick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 8, 2012 Author Share Posted September 8, 2012 I'm sure that prices will be higher in no part due to this thread. Guess that its good jpn medals are getting more exposure, especially due to all your great posts Nick! Let's hope they are getting not too much exposure Still need some pieces for collection :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 11, 2012 Author Share Posted September 11, 2012 Looks like there was a whole series of these veteran tie pins Note the colour of cords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 eBay seller is an old time collector & author of numerous Japanese reference books Dan King Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 11, 2012 Author Share Posted September 11, 2012 ... author of numerous Japanese reference books ... This happens ... ... old time collector ... Happens much more often Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Yes I agree. Hard to know everything about everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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