HeikoGrusdat Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 Hello all,I am not very familar with uniforms and ranks so here are my questions... I have got some photos of OTTO GREINER from the W?rttembergische Armee Kraftwagen-Park N?16, he seems to be the driver of higher officers - BUT what is his rank??? Was he an officer himself or a NCO? I think he must have been an officer because he had the W?rttemberg Friedrich order and EK2.... but maybe a long service NCO could get it too?PLEASE HELP ME thanksHeiko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeikoGrusdat Posted February 11, 2006 Author Share Posted February 11, 2006 more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeikoGrusdat Posted February 11, 2006 Author Share Posted February 11, 2006 more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 Heiko,I don't see anything in the photos to indicate that he was anything other than a Lt. in the Kraftfahrkorps (Verkehrstruppen). All the uniform parts say officer to me.Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 There was also the Kaiserliches Automobilekorps where volunteer drivers served, brought their own cars and I think were given officer rank.David Gregory could maybe help there... I think these were taken over into the army at some stage.BestChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 (edited) Chris is correct, but there is no indication (at least from the uniform) that this soldier was ever in the volunteer automobile corps. Those members provided their personal vehicle for the army's use. Of course, he could have been in this group earlier, there is just no way of knowing from these photos. The fact that he is an officer might be an indication.Chip Edited February 11, 2006 by Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeikoGrusdat Posted February 11, 2006 Author Share Posted February 11, 2006 Thank you so far, just to be shure, I can name him "Leutnant" now...?!Heiko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 Leutnant der Reserve. I don't find anyone in the Kraftfahrtruppen who was a regular, or a pre-war reserve officer, with his name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeikoGrusdat Posted February 11, 2006 Author Share Posted February 11, 2006 OK, thank you....unfortunately I don`t have any documents of him, only about 20 photos and his awards: medal bar EK2 + Friedrich ; ribbon bar EK2,Friedrich, Hindenburg ; and the Hindenburg as single cross. I only know that he was from Leonberg .Heiko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notned Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 A nice find! Heiko!Its nice to have Photos of the man along with his medals....at least you know what he looked like and that he was a driver and an Officer!Thanks for showing!RegardsPaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwmosher Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 This is an interesting small ensemble for a prussian reserve kraftfahr officer's shoulder boards and ID discs with a little twist. Here is the pre-1915 disc for an enlisted man assigned to Kraftfahr depot 7 and the post-1915 disc (serrated w/ double markings) for the same individual, but as a leutnant assigned to Kraftfahr Erzatz Abteilung 5. Also, on the back of the officer's disc, additional stampings would indicate he was in charge of a motorized ambulance unit (San.K.A.7; 720.). The boards came with the discs and would be worn on either the kleiner rock or friedens waffenrock. DaveBack of officer's disc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 Dave,That's a nice set. I have similar examples, but nothing that came as a set. Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Hello all,I am not very familar with uniforms and ranks so here are my questions... I have got some photos of OTTO GREINER from the W?rttembergische Armee Kraftwagen-Park N?16, he seems to be the driver of higher officers - BUT what is his rank??? Was he an officer himself or a NCO? I think he must have been an officer because he had the W?rttemberg Friedrich order and EK2.... but maybe a long service NCO could get it too?PLEASE HELP ME thanksHeikoDoesn't his tunic look like the collar is the 1915 pattern with the distinguishing cloth? It looks very similar to the one of page 458 in the Kraus book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwmosher Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Charles, I think you're right that M-15 collar litzen is being worn on this officer. You can see the same litzen on the officer wearing the Bluse above him and the "correct" M-10 litzen for this type of tunic on the officer to the right. Not only that, but the buttons appear to be M-15 (rimless) type.Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Charles, I think you're right that M-15 collar litzen is being worn on this officer. You can see the same litzen on the officer wearing the Bluse above him and the "correct" M-10 litzen for this type of tunic on the officer to the right. Not only that, but the buttons appear to be M-15 (rimless) type.DaveI didn't notice the buttons, they do look like the 1915 pattern. His collar material also looks like the man wearing the 1915 tunic behind him not like the other wearing the typical 1910 tunic. Did officer's have 1910 tunics made after the new 1915 feldbluse was introduced? I wonder if his shoulder boards are 1910 or 1915... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Charles,It appears that the shoulder boards are bright rather than subdued, but that could be just the lighting. I suspect that officer's could continue to have the M10 style tunics made if they wanted. They were certainly more attractive than the new Bluse and I have seen many hybridizations which included characteristics of both the old and the new.Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 I didn't notice the buttons, they do look like the 1915 pattern. His collar material also looks like the man wearing the 1915 tunic behind him not like the other wearing the typical 1910 tunic. Did officer's have 1910 tunics made after the new 1915 feldbluse was introduced? I wonder if his shoulder boards are 1910 or 1915...I don't remember whose this is or where it was posted. Here's a 1910 with a 1915 collar. Odd but I saw one in the Kraus book and have seen a few others. I think this may be the first time I've seen a period photo of 1915 collars and buttons on a 1910 cut tunic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 I don't remember whose this is or where it was posted. Here's a 1910 with a 1915 collar. Odd but I saw one in the Kraus book and have seen a few others. I think this may be the first time I've seen a period photo of 1915 collars and buttons on a 1910 cut tunic.Here's one from another forum that has 1915 smooth buttons on a 1910 tunic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Charles,It looks like that first tunic has subdued M15 boards as well.Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Charles,It looks like that first tunic has subdued M15 boards as well.ChipChip,I think your right. The collar is unusual but it seems very rare to find a 1910 with 1915 style buttons. That Kraftfahr officer seems to have a really unual tunic with 1915 buttons, a 1915 bluse collar with 1915 tabs, and 1910 boards(?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Chip,I think your right. The collar is unusual but it seems very rare to find a 1910 with 1915 style buttons. That Kraftfahr officer seems to have a really unual tunic with 1915 buttons, a 1915 bluse collar with 1915 tabs, and 1910 boards(?).Heiko,Can you post more photos on this man? His uniform is very interesting and maybe other photos would clear up whether or not he was an NCO before becoming a Lt. How do you know his awards? Do you have a list of his awards or a photo of him wearing them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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