Robin Lumsden Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Fife Constabulary died today. The Force flag was lowered at HQ for the last time, to the sound of a bugle. An honour guard paraded at the slow march, while the flag was handed over to the Retired Officers' Association for safekeeping. Sounds stupid ................. but it was quite emotional, really. Fife was the oldest continuous Force in Scotland, surviving numerous previous amalgamations. There was a 'Fife Police' when Victoria ascended the throne. But, sadly, the incompetence of the bankers beat us this time. Killed off in the name of public sector cost-savings. End of an era. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-21980816 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conner395 Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I have no doubt that the same emotion was felt all over Scotland, as the various forces paraded for the last time. Albeit that 6 of the 8 were "only" 38 years of age (D+G was unchanged at regionalisation in 1975), they all engendered a spirit of cameraderie and produced an extrmely high level of professionalism - which will be carried by forward by the Police Service of Scotland. I served in Northern Constabulary from its creation on 16.5.1975 until my retiral in October 2003, and as Secretary of the Northern Constabulary Community Pipe Band from its founding in 2002 until the present time, so - technically - I can claim the full 38 years service!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lumsden Posted March 31, 2013 Author Share Posted March 31, 2013 Well said! (Hope they give you the full 38 years pension!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lumsden Posted March 31, 2013 Author Share Posted March 31, 2013 PS - I designed this thing, way back in time. Happy days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Wolfe Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Too often these financial driven moves prove to be both ineffective and inefficient. it has happened here as well throughout Ontario and now many are regretting such decisions. Sorry to hear about the loss of your constabulary, Robin. Regards Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Robin and Conner - thankyou for telling us about these changes. I hadn't read anything about them - however, from your comments it would seem that they have created one National Force ? The face of the future for England and Wales ............................. Mervyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Wilkinson Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 As a collector of police insignia, the Scottish Police have always been a great disappointment to me. The adoption of the "national" badge many years ago I feel was the start of a downward spiral of local identity loss and although individual force names (albeit regionalised) were retained there always seemed a lot of "sameness" about them. That is a collectors view and in no way detracts from the professional service which the individual forces provided to their communities, which at the end of the day is all important. Spending large sums of money on introducing a new corporate image etc is not in my view a good start. Your average man or woman in the street does not give a jot about the wording on a police vehicle or the sign above the door of a police station, He or she simply wants a professional response from the police when they need it, and I'm sure that in Scotland that will continue. Despite the views of the new Scottish Chief Constable (Stephen House), I doubt very much if the national structure is likely to see the light of day south of the border in England. In quite recent years Cumbria and Lancashire Constabularies went to the Government saying that they wished to amalgamate and presented a blueprint with costings to facilitate the merger. To great surprise it was not approved! Wales I personally feel, (with its own Parliament) could follow the Scottish lead. We will have to wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Wilkinson Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) PS - I designed this thing, way back in time. Happy days! A very nice Coat of Arms! It's a great pity that the Chief Constable/Police Authority did not have sufficient pride and spirit of independence to produce a decent cap badge to display their achievement. Too late now................. Edited April 1, 2013 by Dave Wilkinson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Wilkinson Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) I have no doubt that the same emotion was felt all over Scotland, as the various forces paraded for the last time. Albeit that 6 of the 8 were "only" 38 years of age (D+G was unchanged at regionalisation in 1975), they all engendered a spirit of cameraderie and produced an extrmely high level of professionalism - which will be carried by forward by the Police Service of Scotland. I served in Northern Constabulary from its creation on 16.5.1975 until my retiral in October 2003, and as Secretary of the Northern Constabulary Community Pipe Band from its founding in 2002 until the present time, so - technically - I can claim the full 38 years service!! Dscf1006a3finalwee.JPG The badge of the Northern Constabulary was an interesting one, but (alas) far too complicated and intricate to "translate" into a chrome plated metal badge and which when produced as such and affixed to an item of uniform looked like a chrome "blob" with no detail whatsoever available to anyone remotely interested in examining it. A great pity. Edited April 1, 2013 by Dave Wilkinson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickLangley Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Despite the views of the new Scottish Chief Constable (Stephen House), I doubt very much if the national structure is likely to see the light of day south of the border in England I'm not so sure. Though I'm not from a policing background it is interesting to compare the attitude of police officers of the present day with those of previous generations. I get the impression that most modern officers consider themselves to be officers in The Police rather than as officers of a local - well regional - force. I would be willing to bet that the Home Office and the ACPO ranks enthusiasm for standardization of uniforms across England has less to do with saving money (the sums are trivial) and more to do with creating a nationalised image in advance of consolidation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickLangley Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 A very nice Coat of Arms! It's a great pity that the Chief Constable/Police Authority did not have sufficient pride and spirit of independence to produce a decent cap badge to display their achievement. Too late now................. Looks very much like the cap badge that Devon & Exeter Police went to the trouble and expense of commissioning for the brief period the force was in existence prior to amalgamation with Plymouth City and Cornwall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conner395 Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) The badge of the Northern Constabulary was an interesting one, but #alas# far too complicated and intricate to "translate" into a chrome plated metal badge and which when produced as such and affixed to an item of uniform looked like a chrome "blob" with no detail whatsoever available to anyone remotely interested in examining it. A great pity. Sorry, Dave but you are wrong. Albeit the first issue epaulette was so completely chromed that it was difficult to discern the detail (simply it was TOO shiny), this was easily corrected in future issues and indeed the design lent itself to also a very presentable (I reckon) lapel badge as worn by Northern Constabularty Community Pipe Band. There was even an embroidered version of the shoulderbadge - which needed to be simplified to suit, given the size (approximately that of a florin!!) and the much larger badges look really smart - namely the short-lived wallet/name badge (blue and chrome) , and the Pipe Band Glengarry Badge (black and chrome) The design, which was retained as shoulder insignia despite the corporate rebranding in 1996, must have been OK, as there's a lot of my former colleagues got quite emotional at having to remove it from their uniforms yesterday. The design was in use from 1st October 1979 to 31st March 2013 - and of course remains in use by the Community Pipe Band. Dave Northern Constabulary officer (from force creation in 1975 to 2003) Northern Constabulary Community Pipe Band (from Band creation in 2002- 2013, and still gong!) Edited April 1, 2013 by conner395 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Wilkinson Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Sorry, Dave but you are wrong. Albeit the first issue epaulette was so completely chromed that it was difficult to discern the detail (simply it was TOO shiny), this was easily corrected in future issues NorCon black.JPG and indeed the design lent itself to also a very presentable (I reckon) lapel badge as worn by Northern Constabularty Community Pipe Band. BADGE - Scotland - NorConPB.JPG There was even an embroidered version of the shoulderbadge - which needed to be simplified to suit, given the size (approximately that of a florin!!) NorCon embr-v2.JPG and the much larger badges look really smart - namely the short-lived wallet/name badge (blue and chrome) , and the Pipe Band Glengarry Badge (black and chrome) The design, which was retained as shoulder insignia despite the corporate rebranding in 1996, must have been OK, as there's a lot of my former colleagues got quite emotional at having to remove it from their uniforms yesterday. The design was in use from 1st October 1979 to 31st March 2013 - and of course remains in use by the Community Pipe Band. Dave Northern Constabulary officer (from force creation in 1975 to 2003) Northern Constabulary Community Pipe Band (from Band creation in 2002- 2013, and still gong!) Dave, It's all a matter of opinion! I visited Inverness several years ago and saw both the epaulette badge and the small cloth badge being worn. I knew what the design consisted of but had that not been the case I would have been none the wiser. I have examples of both and again (in my opinion) the design is so convoluted it tends to convey nothing really other than confusion. I'm referring to force issued items and not tie pins etc. The wallet badge was indeed a credit to the force. That said, why produce a very nice badge at great expense and then hide it in a wallet so that no one can see it? Perhaps that's why it was short lived. Fife similarly produced a series of warrant badges, The last issued one was quite striking - but again hidden away where no one could see it. "Fob" badges saw a short period of favour in Scotland but again they for the most part faded away after a short time. It is as if one part of the organisation wanted to shout its identity whilst another was hissing "shush, they may find out who we are...." The cash expended on all these short lived excursions would have been better spent on producing a decent cap badge for each individual force instead of the very poor looking (in my opinion) national badge. Oh, and before I finish I must mention Tayside Police. One Chief Constable the had the audacity to order the introduction of an enamelled version of the Scottish national badge with a scroll below indicating "Tayside Police". A well made badge which fulfilled both force and national identity. It was short lived and was replaced by the "el cheapo" national version when he retired. I await with interest to see what next is produced from a badge point of view in Scotland. They already have a national badge so in theory (if they want to save cash) they need not do anything. That said I've heard a rumour that someone has already splashed out on a design which has been rejected by the Scottish Herald. I watch with interest........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Wilkinson Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) Despite the views of the new Scottish Chief Constable (Stephen House), I doubt very much if the national structure is likely to see the light of day south of the border in England I'm not so sure. Though I'm not from a policing background it is interesting to compare the attitude of police officers of the present day with those of previous generations. I get the impression that most modern officers consider themselves to be officers in The Police rather than as officers of a local - well regional - force. I would be willing to bet that the Home Office and the ACPO ranks enthusiasm for standardization of uniforms across England has less to do with saving money (the sums are trivial) and more to do with creating a nationalised image in advance of consolidation. Nick, There are political reasons why I believe it will be a long time before we see a national police force in England, if ever. You have to have the political will and it is not there at the moment. Also, you will find very few ACPO ranks advocating such a move. The reason? It would be proffesional suicide to do so. Most would loose their jobs if a national force was formed as has been the case in Scotland. Its okay for Stephen House to advocate such a move, He's got the top job! Finally, don't forget one long standing anachronism in English policing. The City of London Police. Numerous attempts have been made to consolidate it with the Met. over the years and all have failed. The reason is because powerful politicians with City connections have indicated that they would stop such a move. In fact I would go as far as to say that I think that hell would freeze over before the City Police met their demise. Edited April 1, 2013 by Dave Wilkinson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lumsden Posted April 1, 2013 Author Share Posted April 1, 2013 ............... they have created one National Force ? The face of the future for England and Wales ............................. Mervyn. One day, it will happen to E&W too. Just a matter of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lumsden Posted April 1, 2013 Author Share Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) A very nice Coat of Arms! It's a great pity that the Chief Constable/Police Authority did not have sufficient pride and spirit of independence to produce a decent cap badge to display their achievement. Too late now................. Thanks, Dave. I could not agree more. The Fife Constabulary Pipe Band, many of whom were civvies, adopted a unique bonnet badge with this coat-of-arms. As a point of interest, The Lord Lyon told me some years ago that the (old) Scottish Police Service 'Semper Vigilo' badge had never been approved by him or his predecessors .................. despite their best efforts to have the police apply for matriculation of the device.. The ongoing 'new police logo' saga just demonstrates that the good old Lord Lyon had the last laugh in the end! I got a chuckle from it, anyway! Edited April 1, 2013 by Robin Lumsden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lumsden Posted April 1, 2013 Author Share Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) Nick, There are political reasons why I believe it will be a long time before we see a national police force in England ..... Dave. Believe me, the same applied in Scotland. I was heavily involved in a working group that recommended one Scottish Force way back in 2001. It was rejected for 'political' reasons. Now, the financial imperatives have prevailed over the political ones. If, a few years down the line, the Scottish experiment has saved money, it will be rolled out south of the border. I'm prepared to bet my pension on it. (Well, maybe not!) Edited April 1, 2013 by Robin Lumsden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lumsden Posted April 1, 2013 Author Share Posted April 1, 2013 Regarding the Northern 'Celtic Knot' badge. I well remember that, as a rookie at Tulliallan back in 1978, I thought that everyone wearing this shoulder badge looked like an ACC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Wilkinson Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Regarding the Northern 'Celtic Knot' badge. I well remember that, as a rookie at Tulliallan back in 1978, I thought that everyone wearing this shoulder badge looked like an ACC! Oh Robin! You will certainly upset Dave Conner now............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lumsden Posted April 1, 2013 Author Share Posted April 1, 2013 The subtle differences between the Thane badge of the Fife & Forfar Yeomanry (left) and that of Fife Constabulary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lumsden Posted April 1, 2013 Author Share Posted April 1, 2013 Yeomanry Thane ...................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lumsden Posted April 1, 2013 Author Share Posted April 1, 2013 Constabulary Thane ................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lumsden Posted April 2, 2013 Author Share Posted April 2, 2013 Nothing is set in tablets of stone, though. The Thane on a 1907 Yeomanry card ........................... .................. seems to have a Constabulary tail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conner395 Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 (edited) Nope. It was a hoot that "rookies" on elementary course always said "sir" to second-stagers or other PCs wearing NC epaulette badges, as that plus the numbers looked awfully like inspector pips from a distance. Oh Robin! You will certainly upset Dave Conner now............... Edited April 14, 2013 by conner395 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lumsden Posted April 15, 2013 Author Share Posted April 15, 2013 Dave Korrekt ! The designer of the old NC shoulder badge got it right ! Forget the numbers ....................... the badge alone looked like an ACC's crossed batons. Well, at least from a distance ! The Kincardine high-rise flats have finally been demolished, by the way. The old place almost looks like a proper village again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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