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Bernhard H.Holst

Prussian officer's medalbar with Hanoverian langensalza medal

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Hello; Perhaps some viewers may enjoy seeing this medal bar with the corresponding ribbon bar:

Prussian Iron Cross 1870 with 25 year Oakleaf, Red Eagle 3rd cl.. with bow, Crown Order 3rd cl., Prussia Long service officers 25 years, Prussia 1870/71 comm. medal with "Metz" and "Paris" clasps.

Rick Research has begun searching for a name but seems to believe it not too promising. In any event I thank him very much.

Bernhard H. Holst

Edited by Bernhard H.Holst

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If there was a name, we'd be done but for the typing.

Here's the Research Gnome processing... process:

1) This guy was ALIVE in 1895

2) he had retired before getting a Centenaary Medal in 1897 (or was dead and the Orders and XXV weren't returned)

3) he was a full Oberst (RAO3S)

4) he was, obviously, hanoverian

That leaves a remaarkably small time frame (1895-1897) and ONE particular rank to search, bearing in mind things that could be "off medal bar" classes.

There were only two ex-Hanoverian K.P. Generalmajors aD possible and one, hallelujah, is eliminated from the 1870/71 battles bars he had, per a Stammliste. The oTHER retired in 1898, so he'd have worn his 1897.

I'm 1/4 through "Hanover's Officer Corps 1866-1897" and only 1 suspect that I've asked Andy to check in Gren Rgt 2 Stammliste, since I think HE can be eliminated too. Onwards, forwards!

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arb   

Rick,

That gentleman entered the saxon 2nd Gren. R. (Nr. 101 in 1867), so, he can be eliminated as well.

Andy

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Glenn J   

Rick,

have you considered Oberst Ferdinand Stolte? Sec.-Lt. in 7. Infanterie-Regiment and died as an Oberst à la suite in IR 67 and Commandant of Diedenhofen on 24 June 1896.

Shown with: RAO3S, KO3, EK2 70, DA in 1896.

Regards

Glenn

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It's spooky how he does that, folks! :speechless1::jumping::cheers: I just finished #400 on page 21 and there he is #561 on page 29.

Commanded Inf Rgt 67 14.02.93 to 19.05.96-- dying in Mainz just a month after leaving that command.

RAO3S 18.01.95

KO3 18.01.92

Who's got the Stammliste for Inf Rgt 67 (a portrait photo would be too much to hope for!) to confirm ONLY those two battle bars?

Meanwhile, from © "1815-1939"--

Have you already got ANYBODY ELSE elimnated, Glenn--or must we (MUST we?) slog on to make sure there isn't ANOTHER suspect? THAT takes just as long if not longer and is ALWAYS part of the Research Gnome drudgery-- can't give up on the first match, but only when EVERYBODY has been checked out. I'm into this about 4 hours at this point. Would have been impossible for a Prussian officer, and works ONLY for a Hanoverian.

Obviously if Stolte was the one-and-only, his family bought his three returnables to keep his medal bar intact. He'd hardly had a chance to WEAR them!!!

Edited by Rick Research

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Stolte was in IR 61 from 9.3.67 until 22.7.71. IR 61 qualified for GRAVELOTTE-ST. PRIVAT, PARIS and METZ, and its I. and II. Btls. further qualified for VILLIERS. An IR 61 history might let us know whether he missed out on Gravelotte-St. Privat and Villiers.

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Glenn J   

The following 10 full colonels were the only Prussian officers in 1895 with the exact combination of an RAO3S, KO3, EK2 70, DA. As far as I can ascertain, only Oberst Stolte was a former Hannoverian officer.

Fürstenberg Frhr. von: DR 15

Hitzigrath: IR 54

Klauer: 3. Ing.-Inspektion

Langenmayr: Landwehrbezirk Frankfurt a.M.

Mende: 3. Ing.-Inspektion

Schroetter Frhr. von: IR 56

Stolte: IR 67

Werckmeister: IR 22

Zobel: Landwehrbezirk Hannover

Zschüschen: IR 82

Regards

Glenn

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Just a few additional bits of data

Ferdinand Christo. Andr. Conrad STOLTE

SecLt 16.06.60 (Hanover, 7th Infantry Regiment)

PremLt 15.10.67 (Prussian)

Hptm 29.02.72

Major 10.0.84 B

ObLt (as they abbreviated this then) 24.03.90 H3h

Oberst 14.02.93 F

he was probably headed for retirement as a char. Generalmor aD when WHUMP, that was the end of his story!Sources =

Hannover HuS HB 1865

Prussian Rank Lists

Prussian Ordensliste 1895

"Rang-Liste der Officiere und Aerzte der Königl. Hannoverschen Armee im Juni 1866. Nebst einer Nachweisung über deren Pensionierung, resp. Wiederanstellung in anderen Diensten im Jahre 1867, sowie über deren Verbleib im März 1897"

Edited by Rick Research

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Hello:

My sincere thanks to all who made up the team to research the owner of this medalbar. In particular Rick Research whose tenacity is amazing.

In this case there is a special gratitude of my part because this officer being from the former Kingdom of Hamnover who continued service after the end of the war of 1866 .It was also the end of the Kingdom of Hanover. Kaiser Wilhelm II later attempted to make amends by reinstituting several battle and or campaign honors as well as the "Gibraltar" cuff title for three formations.

My thanks again,

Bernhard H. Holst

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Bernhard: Andy says the Inf Rgt 67 Stammliste has no more information than the IR 61 volume. So, here's some documentation you can copy and print out to go with the group--

From the Hanoverian 1865 Court & State Handbook:

And from the non-official additionally printed "Complete rank List" seniority list of 1891, his ranks to "ObLt"--

Anyone who thinks THAT is bad should know that as above that is LARGER than real size. Is it no wonder Research Gnomes sometimes become cranky from lack of sleep/eye straain when going through MANY pages sometimes even worse?

Edited by Rick Research

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Here is when Stolte got his RAO4 (replaced by the RAO3S):

The Ordenslisten of 1886 and 1895 were not simply the annual listings, but a periodic tidying up of ALL LIVING holders--so if somebody vanishes between the "big" editions, we know they had died. Stolte's RAO4 was thus in the "1886 Ordensliste" Nachtrag 3--which covered 1888.

Here (to simplify) are his final listings for the RAO3S:

and KO3:

which would originally have been in another "1886" Nachtrag. In the "big" editions where awards were REPEATED, status and residence are as of 1886, 1895... or the next "all" was in 1905, NOT actual status and position when originally gazetted in one of the intermediate annual supplements.

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Here is Stolte's final living appearance in all his awards glory in the 1895 Rank List. Prussian Rank Lists NEVER showed campaign or jubilee medals. :banger:

I wish we'd been able to turn up more personal biogrpahical information on him from one of his unit Stammlisten.

And a photo portrait wearing this medal bar would STILL be nice. :catjava:

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Hard to believe but both the scans above are from the same Rank List--and match in the original. That's why sometimes we go "gray scale" to simplify the tobacco colored look!

Still, gives an idea of the original sources.

Edited by Rick Research

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Glenn J   

Rick,

I wish we'd been able to turn up more personal biogrpahical information on him from one of his unit Stammlisten.

Here is the first part of his entry in the IR 61 Stammliste.

Glenn

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Aha! :Cat-Scratch: Wondering with a genealogical ulterior motive... because one of the Traveling Museum's members perked up at mention of this name--well may have Bernhard's Colonel's grandfather's MGS and Waterloo... if the pair can be rooted out of misplaced storage. :cool:

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hello Rick and Glenn.

Thank you for all the data unearthed and posted.

I am unaware of any of my family's ancestors' servvice in the conflicts we are interested in. however my dear father was a member of the Deutsch-Hannoversche Partei, very monarchist leaning and of course banned after 1933. His library reflected this. His later admission to and membership in the NSDAP was clouded by this unsavory past. Not serving in the military due to eye sight affliction he was catapulted up the ladder into the office of Kreispropagandaleiter but prohibited from hold ing speeches , only introducing them.

Bernhard H. Holst

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I believe additional information on this officer may be found in the Mormon Family Library archives. I shall check when I am next there. 

 

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