Guest Rick Research Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 But this is extraordinary! I do not know how long George had the medal bar and ribbon bar, but he certainly never saw or was aware of ANY of these documents--he was my rôle model to Never Split Groups. And he LOVED documents! I can only imagine that in those dim, dark, pre-historic days of German collecting-in-Germany whoever owned the WHOLE group had already split it up BEFORE George ever saw it-- Urkunden beast (sniff!) not interested in medals, medals beast (sniff!) not intereested in paperwork (despite autographs). Wiehr's group was my "passing out test" as a Research Gnome Cadet. I correctly identified him with no help, and thus was rewarded with it by George--though at a discount market price at the time. What is free is not valued as much as what is earned, after all. To have lived to see this!!!!.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogi Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 WOW that is what collecting is all about collecting the medal bar, hoping to hope that it will arrive one day and then BAM ! This renews hope for all of us in it for the long run Awesome, thank you so much for sharing the photo with us, and the story Rick This is a story for everyone in the forum not just Rick hehehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedehansen Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 His award document from the Ritterkreuz 1. Klasse des Friedrichsordens dated 1912, Paul is now Kapitän und Führer des Dampfers König Wilhelm II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedehansen Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 His award document Besitzzeugnis from the Landwehrdienstauszeichnung 1. Klasse dated 1914. Paul is Kapitänleutnant der Seewehr I. Aufgebots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedehansen Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 His award document from the Hamburger Hanseatenkreuz dated 1916. Paul is now Kapitänleutnant in der Handelsschutzflottille. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedehansen Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 His award document from the Mecklenburger Militärverdienstkreuz 2. Class from 1917. Paul is now serving as Chef with the 3. Handelsschutz - Halbflottille. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedehansen Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 His award document from the Mecklenburger Militärverdienstkreuz 1. Class dated 1918. Paul is now Chef der Handelsschutz - Halbflottille. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedehansen Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 His promotion document Charakter als Korvettenkapitän Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedehansen Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 The next document is his Zeugnis zum Kapitän auf großer Fahrt from 1931 in a folder with entry D. S. Albert Ballien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedehansen Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 as next he got the Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämper. Paul is now Kapitän im Ruhestand in Hamburg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedehansen Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 In 1937 Paul got das Verdienstkreuz des Ehrenzeichens des Deutschen Roten Kreuzes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 You realize now I am your slave for life, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedehansen Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 In 1942 Paul got a certificate for his iron crosses issued from the Kommando der Marinestation der Ostsee in Kiel. Now we also know when he got these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedehansen Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 Festa finita Regards Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naxos Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Andreas, ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 What, no Persian Lion & Sun Urkunde? 28 years!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacHel Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Wow! How INCREDIBLE to see Rick on the other side of such info! And how incredibly pleasant too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Actually, MOST of my collection is like that: medal bars, award groups.... none with FACES. Or document groups with no medals with... you guessed it... no faces. Most German collecting seems to be "blind" that way-- and I suppose in other areas too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedehansen Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 What, no Persian Lion & Sun Urkunde? 28 years!!!!! Sorry, i can´t serve with this award document, but I think five years ago, I was at the Internationales Maritimes Museum Hamburg and surprise surprise, I saw this document and the order in one of the displays. On my demand they told me, that they only have this two things from Paul Wiehr. My hope was, that I could hold the medal bar in my hands but now I known, that the medal bar is in better hands than in this crowded museum. Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedehansen Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 Andreas, ... q1.jpg Thanks Naxos, my intention was to make Rick glad, as a thanks for all the work he did and I hope he will furthermore do Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 They have the Persian Order and document in a museum... and nothing else? Arrrggghhhhhh. I must say though, as bad as BRITISH collectors are about throwing away original ribbons for revolting new synthetic ones, GERMAN collectors in the 1970s and 1980s were terrible about splitting up groups, tearing up medal bars and so on--all because "I only collect Anhalt..." or whatever. I have document groups with ONE ITEM removed, that at the time would have been worth €10--no big deal... and a lot of wretched "collections" over there. If it wasn't for George and the rest of us there'd not be much left! Of course, in my "golden years" 1 DM = 29¢ U.S. Now I can't buy anything any more from Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Two examples of WHY Research Gnomes MUST have MULTIPLE sources. First up, the navy 1914 Rank List, showing Wiehr's current awards just before he received the LD1 to replace the LD2 here: Next, the February 1918 Navy Rank List: ALL foreign awards were omitted (though some Swedes slipped through, apparently baffling clerks by their unfamiliar abbreviations), and note that the wartime decorations WERE current up to that month (often very much NOT the norm) BUT they still hadn't upgraded the June 1914 LD1!!! We have to triangulate such things. The fact that Wiehr's medal bar is a tab-back left no "usual clue" as to backing material--red = army, blue = navy... so George was quite pleased I figured this one out--my first "solo flight." We KNEW that the 1918 "LD2" HAD to be wrong from Wiehr's entry date and... all these years later-- sure enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naxos Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 (edited) Here is the image from the Bundesarchiv and this I found on the net Edited August 19, 2013 by Naxos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 (edited) for that ad! But what's the Bundesarchiv got the same photo of him FOR? Has he got some sort of FILE there? Edited August 19, 2013 by Rick Research Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naxos Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 This is the link: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_102-14217,_Paul_Wiehr.jpg caption to the image: Kapitän Wiehr zum Kommodore der Hamburg-Amerika Linie ernannt! Kapitän Paul Wiehr, der Führer des Hapag Dampfers "Albert Ballin", fährt seit 50 Jahren zur See und wurde als rangältester Kommandant zum Kommodore ernannt. Datum: 1932 - Wiehr, Paul: Kapitän, Kommandant des Dampfers Albert Ballin, Kommodore der Hamburg-Amerika Linie, - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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