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slava1stclass

Full Cavaliers of the Order of Glory - Present Day Market Realities

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An interesting set in the upcoming morton and eden auction... 4 slava's awarded to one person

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Gents,

Given the continuing malaise of the world economy, there has not been much to report.

The well-known NYC-area dealer has not had any fresh Full Cavalier-related inventory for quite some time. That inventory which he does advertise - a complete Full Cavalier set ($29,000.00) and a single Order of Glory 1st Class ($9,700.00) - has been sitting for months with no takers. The Full Cavalier set (post # 96 above) has been on the market for 16 months.

Either his price points are too high and/or the collecting community is leery of investing capital in these challenging economic times.

A word of caution. A few obviously fake Full Cavalier sets have been offered on eBay over the past year - largely originating from sellers in the Baltic states.

Regards,

slava1stclass

Edited by slava1stclass

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I do not want to deviate too much from the OoG nature of this thread....BUT...

I recently observed an online auction site selling, a Suvorov 3 sell for USD3.6K, a Bogdan 3 sell for USD3.5K and an HSU sell for USD3.7K. To the best that I was able to observe from the pics, and without physically examining them, I found liitle reason to doubt that these may have been originals.

Whereas the BK price was reasonable and reflected recent dealer prices, the Suvorov 3 sold for USD3K below recently advertised dealer prices and the HSU, I would reckon may also have sold below recent dealer prices (although I have not been following HSU prices much).

My opinion on the economics is that the price surge witnessed a few years back was fuelled by Russian law and the first global economic crisis, whereby speculators and collectors saw Soviet ODMs as a "bulletproof" investment (to quote the expression used by an old friend of mine) further accelerating the demand and price of these ODMs. however, the all time high was reached in 2008/9 and market prices have started to become more moderate again.

For those who went into Soviet ODMs for speculative reasons, .....you probably missed the boat to dump your investment in 2008/9!! For others, like myself who are collectors, and who have been priced out of the market, we can again start to breathe a small sigh of relief and hope that this reversing trend continues.

Of course, keep your eyes on the price of precious metals such as gold, silver and platinum, all of which raise the :speechless1:"melt" :speechless1: price of these orders and which in turn, create another kind of demand!

As for the dealers, well they do provide a service - ready availability of original orders - but truth be said, the premium paid for this service is unrealistic. My advice here would be to revise your stock prices in line with present market realities and keep making reasonable commissions on higher volume sales as opposed to one off "rip-off" profits - you do not seem to have the pulse of the market on some of your stock items....simple!

For the seasoned collector who knows that waiting is part of the game, huge savings may be enjoyed with lots of study, effort and patience.

At least, that's my take on present market realities. I could however, also be wrong! :)

Jim :cheers:

Edited by JimZ

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I do not want to deviate too much from the OoG nature of this thread....BUT...

I recently observed an online auction site selling, a Suvorov 3 sell for USD3.6K, a Bogdan 3 sell for USD3.5K and an HSU sell for USD3.7K. To the best that I was able to observe from the pics, and without physically examining them, I found liitle reason to doubt that these may have been originals.

Whereas the BK price was reasonable and reflected recent dealer prices, the Suvorov 3 sold for USD3K below recently advertised dealer prices and the HSU, I would reckon may also have sold below recent dealer prices (although I have not been following HSU prices much).

My opinion on the economics is that the price surge witnessed a few years back was fuelled by Russian law and the first global economic crisis, whereby speculators and collectors saw Soviet ODMs as a "bulletproof" investment (to quote the expression used by an old friend of mine) further accelerating the demand and price of these ODMs. however, the all time high was reached in 2008/9 and market prices have started to become more moderate again.

For those who went into Soviet ODMs for speculative reasons, .....you probably missed the boat to dump your investment in 2008/9!! For others, like myself who are collectors, and who have been priced out of the market, we can again start to breathe a small sigh of relief and hope that this reversing trend continues.

Of course, keep your eyes on the price of precious metals such as gold, silver and platinum, all of which raise the :speechless1:"melt" :speechless1: price of these orders and which in turn, create another kind of demand!

As for the dealers, well they do provide a service - ready availability of original orders - but truth be said, the premium paid for this service is unrealistic. My advice here would be to revise your stock prices in line with present market realities and keep making reasonable commissions on higher volume sales as opposed to one off "rip-off" profits - you do not seem to have the pulse of the market on some of your stock items....simple!

For the seasoned collector who knows that waiting is part of the game, huge savings may be enjoyed with lots of study, effort and patience.

At least, that's my take on present market realities. I could however, also be wrong! :)

Jim :cheers:

The last number in the SN of the Suvorov 3 was erased, making it unresearchable, and the screwpost was shortened. Plus, HSU in my opinion was fake.

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Yes - you are indeed right on both counts on the Suvorov.... A shortened screwpost may be an original alteration made by the awardee. But agreed that it is unresearchable - Nonetheless, for an order to sell at USD3K below dealers prices (if the rest is original), I wouls still say that it sold way under its current value.

Of course I would not advocate the purchase of awards with defaced serial numbers as these may just as easily be defaced by the awardee back in the 90s as well as being stolen from museums or the recipients themselves - we all know the horror stories!

Re the HSU, I will defer to your better judgement if you have reasons to doubt its originality. I personally find the HSU to be highly a fascinating award that is highly demanded by collectors on account of its status - but it is otherwise a highly insipid award.

Perhaps I should open up some threads on these three awards in the fake section to go into debating their veracity or otherwise. If you are right, its a big ouch for the person who bought it!

My views on the economics of soviet ODMs however remain unchanged.

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The well-known NYC-area dealer has not had any fresh Full Cavalier-related inventory for quite some time. That inventory which he does advertise - a complete Full Cavalier set ($29,000.00) and a single Order of Glory 1st Class ($9,700.00) - has been sitting for months with no takers. The Full Cavalier set (post # 96 above) has been on the market for 16 months.

Either his price points are too high and/or the collecting community is leery of investing capital in these challenging economic times.

Regards,

slava1stclass

Gents,

He recently dropped the price on the single Glory 1st Class by $800.00. He is also now offering a "composite" Full Cavalier set that contains the original Glory 1st Class, the Full Cavalier's 1985-issue OPW 1 and a Glory II and Glory III that were added to round out the set (with their associated "made to match" serial numbers). FWIW, there is a nice set of documents with this offering. Asking price for this "composite" set is $11,500.00.

Regards,

slava1stclass

Edited by slava1stclass

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The last number in the SN of the Suvorov 3 was erased, making it unresearchable, and the screwpost was shortened. Plus, HSU in my opinion was fake.

Who are we talking about, Hermann Historica?

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Gents,

He recently dropped the price on the single Glory 1st Class by $800.00.

Regards,

slava1stclass

Gents,

The Glory 1st Class in question (s/n 121) is no longer listed on his site. It appears the $800.00 drop in price (to $8,900.00) moved it along. Realistic pricing does matter in the end.

Regards,

slava1stclass

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Gents,

The new year brings a new offering - Order of Glory 1st Class (s/n 812) with an asking price of $8,500.00. I would assess it as falling in the 5 to 6 range (out of 10) on the condition scale. Unfortunately, no original documentation comes with the order.

I can only assume the world economy's continuing malaise is the catalyst prying loose the recent Glory 1st Class orders we've seen enter the market from private collections.

Regards,

slava1stclass

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Gents,

The Full Cavalier set (post # 96 above) has been on the market for 16 months.

Gents,

The referenced Full Cavalier set (asking price $29,000.00) is no longer listed on his site. One can assume it was returned unsold to the consigner.

Regards,

slava1stclass

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Gents,

Other than the occasional fake Full Cavalier set listing on eBay, there have been no original Full Cavalier sets to hit the open market for many months now. The continuing down economy (especially in Europe and the United States) undoubtedly plays a large role in this fact. It remains to be seen if we'll again experience the go-go days of the late '90s/early 00s when new Full Cavalier sets and single Glory 1s were hitting the market with much greater regularity.

Regards,

slava1stclass

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Slava - one could also argue that a down economy is precisely the environment where people would be "forced" to sell. If there are no sellers, then it may be an indication pointing towards most of the groups being in the hands of affluent people who are less affected by the recession, don't "need" to sell, and won't sell unless they get a great price for it.

Maybe it's because those people bought their sets at inflated prices? And there's less and less ones left in the hands of family members who may look to sell to collectors?

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If there are no sellers, then it may be an indication pointing towards most of the groups being in the hands of affluent people who are less affected by the recession, don't "need" to sell, and won't sell unless they get a great price for it.

Maybe it's because those people bought their sets at inflated prices? And there's less and less ones left in the hands of family members who may look to sell to collectors?

Bob,

Concur in your thinking as spelled out in point one above.

Depending on how many years ago one "bought in", your second point may also hold true - although to a lesser degree.

One thing that is undisputed (and has been the case for at least ten years) is that the flow from the East is nothing like it was in the early 90's to very early 00's. Even if Full Cavalier sets were to surface in the East today, they would likely remain in place given the much changed income demographic among certain strata of Russian/Ukrainian society.

Regards,

slava1stclass

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The last selling price for the set (without the docs) that I saw was set around $12 200.

The deal was sealed less than a year ago ;)

Here it is.

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