Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Hi all,

Saw this photo online and thought I would share it. Can anyone identify the awards and/or the name of this man?

I'm not very good at medals / uniforms etc.

Thanks & regards,

Matt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't read the shoulder boards, but by the combination of awards this should be Major Karl Moritz Wilhelm Freiherr von Hadeln (1876-1930) of the Garde-Jäger-Bataillon.

The medal bar is Iron Cross 2nd Class, Crown Order 4th Class, Schaumburg-Lippe Cross for Loyal Service, Waldeck Merit Cross 4th Class with Swords, Schaumburg-Lippe House Order of the Honor Cross 4th Class. Hadeln also had two pre-war foreign awards, from Bulgaria and Portugal, but he seems to have gone with a "German-only" bar.

He was a native of Waldeck (born in Arolsen and his father was a princely Waldeck chamberlain), accounting for the Merit Cross. There was some connection between Schaumburg-Lippe and the GJB, as a bunch of battalion officers received the House Order in 1911-12 and as the photo shows Hadeln also received the principality's war decoration. I suppose they might have been part of the escort in 1911 for the funeral of Fürst Georg zu Schaumburg-Lippe or the coronation of Fürst Adolf zu Schaumburg-Lippe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dave,

is that not an LD1 in 2nd place?

Regards

Glenn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glenn, I thought it might be, but I blew it up about as far as I could without losing all resolution, and it appeared to be a KO4 by the wider ring around the center medallion and the Einfassung on the cross arms. Your image is better, so now I am unsure again. At 400%, it still looks like a wider and more raised medallion ring than an LD1, and the Einfassung further from the edge like a Crown Order, but the arms don't appear curved.

Frhr. v. Hadeln, who had a KO4, was the only match I found with both a prewar Schaumburg-Lippe House Order and a wartime Waldeck Merit Cross who could not be ruled out by other known awards. Though checking his date of rank as SekLt., I see he should also have had a Centenary Medal.

Any clues from the uniform? I could maybe start looking for reserve officers with the LD1 and SLH4, and seeing if they match any of the Waldeck Merit Cross recipients for whom we don't have other information like their prewar units. There's probably some otherwise anonymous OLt.d.L. Schmidt with the Waldeck award who will turn out to be a former Bückeburger Jäger or Princely Lippe Something-Rat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dave,

I don't think the uniform is of much help being a pretty generic head and shoulders shot (and very faded?)

Interestingly, I saw this on ebay.de and the reverse has a pencilled annotation - Saatweber FAR 59. The awards don't appear to match Hptm. Saatweber though and I can't make out an artillery shell on the shoulder board.

Regards

Glenn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No Garde-Litzen on his uniform so Garde-Jäger don´t match.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all,

Glenn has found me out, so I have to come clean. I saw the item on ebay and wanted to check with you guys if the awards matched the name.

For some reason I cannot put the hyperlink on this reply, but you can go to ebay.de and type 'Hammer Portrait 1.WK' if you want to see the photo in more detail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I´ve seen it. Nice photo-nice price...

The Ehren-Rangliste mentions a Hauptmann Saatweber (Oberstleutnant a.D.) in FAR59.

Maybe there is a 59 upon the shoulder boards, but the grenade is missing...

I´ve found him in the Verlustliste,

Hauptmann Max Saatweber (born in Barmen, near Wuppertal) , heavy wounded, 5th battery FAR59 (oct 13, 1914)

Edited by The Prussian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Andreas,

The Ehren-Rangliste mentions a Hauptmann Saatweber (Oberstleutnant a.D.) in FAR59.


the problem is, is that Max Saatweber had a RAO4 with Crown since 27 January 1910.

Regards
Glenn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hm, his Uniform looks pretty light and when I compare with other b/w photopraphs of Jäger-Officers I wouldn´t rule out that this guy is also a Jäger.

Gruß Stefan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There was an Oberjäger Saatweber too. Born in the same town. Maybe the writer of the cards back has got some names and units cunfused...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I havemn´t found another staff-officer with that name, but Max.

Does someone have his Leutnant-Patent-number? I don´t have any RL between 1905 and 1910

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Max Saatweber's Patent as Secondelieutenant was 17.11.1891. He apparently did not fully recover from his wound. He was promoted to Major on 27.1.15, served in the rear as commander of Train-Ers.-Abt. 8, and was retired with pension on 6.11.16. But as noted, we know it's not Max in the photo. He had the RAO4Kr and the Centenary Medal, and no SLH4.

The published Waldeck rolls have Max Saatweber with a WVK3X, but this is an error. As a result, I think I have him. It is not Max, but his brother Ernst. And a Jäger-Offizier to boot:

Saatweber, Ernst August, *16.1.1868 in Barmen, Kaufmann ebenda.
18.8.88 Sek.Lt.d.R. d. JB 8
27.1.96 Prem.Lt.d.R.
14.11.03 Hptm.d.R.
22.5.12 Abschied
xx.8.14 als Hptm.d.R.a.D. einberufen
10.9.14 als Hptm.d.R. mit Pat v. 28.3.06 b.d. Res. d. JB 8 wieder angestellt.
18.4.16 Char. als Maj.d.R. verliehen, z.Zt. Fhr. LdwBrigErsBtl 43
27.5.19 Abschied bewilligt
The WVK3X was awarded on 23.5.17 to a Maj. Saatweber, Btls.Kdr. in LIR 94. As noted above, the active Maj. Saatweber was already retired and was with a Train-Abteilung in the rear. However, LdwBrigErsBtl 43, which Ernst Saatweber commanded, was indeed one of the battalions that formed LIR 94. So the Waldeck rolls must have left off the "d.R.", and we got the wrong Saatweber, which is an all-too-common problem with award rolls.
Ernst Saatweber only had the LD1 in the 1912 Rangliste. I think Rick or someone else had finished transcribing the Schaumburg-Lippe House Order rolls, so perhaps Daniel or someone else might be able to check if he got the order between 1912 and 1914. If so, that probably would confirm it.
Another brother, Paul Saatweber, was promoted to Hptm.d.L.a.D. in 1916. He apparently spent most or all of the war with the Kommandantur d. Kriegsgefangenlagers Friedrichsfeld bei Wesel.
Regards,
Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Dave!

Thank you very much for your work. The soldiers of tghe Kdw.Brig.Ers.Btl,. had the Bataillon-Number on the shoulder boards. But does he wear a 43?

By the way. That bataillon was set-up by the XI. army-corps.

It belomnged from 1914-1917 to the Ldw.Ers.Inf.Rgt.3 (as III.Btl.), Gouvernment Metz.

In march 1917 ist changed into II./Ldw.Inf.Rgt.94

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still don't know why the postcard has FAR 59 on the reverse. Maybe it was an error, or maybe it was meant to be sent from Ernst to Max in FAR 59.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Dave & all,

Thanks for confirming - great investigative work!

Edited by Mattyboy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello, I know this post is very old but you talk about my  great great grandfather. Exactly these medals In slightly different composition       ( Added later Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer and  Deutscher Jägerbund e.V. Ehrenkreuz Für Jägertreue 2. Klasse mit Eichenlaub)  are now owned by me. Please if possible give me the source of the photo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice bar - i hope you don`t sell it  - and i would not post your real name everywhere in the net.

Gruß

 

Joe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...