P.F.

Romanian Order of the Star- quick question

37 posts in this topic

Gentlemen,

Regarding the Romanian Order of the Star Grand Crosses that were awarded during WW2- what is the significance of the crown on top of the breast star?

Here are some examples with and without the crown. Maybe it relates to Swords being on the star?

Many thanks for any help offered.

Pierce

RomaniaStarIS.jpg

Romania.jpg

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I have just looked at Antti Ruokoen's book and while he illustrates both types he give no explanation as to the type 2 breast star with and without crown, based on a 1993 book from Romania it would appear the crowns on the star were added after 1938, so it would appear that type 2 star without the crown are 1932-38 and those with the crown are 1938-47.

I hope this is of help,

Paul

 

 

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Paul,

This is certainly a helpful reply. Thank you for taking the time to look that up.

Kind regards
Pierce

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Another query:-

If the Grand Cross was awarded to a high ranking German Officer during War-time would it automatically have been awarded with Swords?

Thanks
Pierce

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Regarding the Romanian Order of the Star Grand Crosses that were awarded during WW2- what is the significance of the crown on top of the breast star?

 

I would venture to say that it had to do with the type of the award (peacetime or wartime), but I do not have all the details.

Another query:-

If the Grand Cross was awarded to a high ranking German Officer during War-time would it automatically have been awarded with Swords?

Thanks
Pierce

Again, it depends on the type of award.

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I would venture to say that it had to do with the type of the award (peacetime or wartime), but I do not have all the details.

Again, it depends on the type of award.

Thank you for your reply though I am a little confused by it. So are you saying if the Grand Cross was awarded during War-time it would automatically have been awarded with Swords? 

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Thank you for your reply though I am a little confused by it. So are you saying if the Grand Cross was awarded during War-time it would automatically have been awarded with Swords? 

No, I am saying that being awarded to military personnel it could be awarded with "peacetime" military insignia (swords above the cross) or with wartime insignia (swords between the arms of the cross) depending on the activity or merits of the awardee.

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The Romanian Order system especially post 1938 is quite complex as well as the varieties of swords there are also sash/ribbon variants depending on the nature of the award, having just catalogued a large collection of Romanian Orders it takes great powers of concentration to get it remotely right. The combination of Antii Ruokonen's book and the earlier Romanian book Decoratii Romanesti de Razboi 1860-1947 are immensely helpful in unravelling the complexities of the series and I would recommend them to any one remotely interested in Romanian Royal Orders.

Paul

 

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The Romanian Order system especially post 1938 is quite complex as well as the varieties of swords there are also sash/ribbon variants depending on the nature of the award, having just catalogued a large collection of Romanian Orders it takes great powers of concentration to get it remotely right. The combination of Antii Ruokonen's book and the earlier Romanian book Decoratii Romanesti de Razboi 1860-1947 are immensely helpful in unravelling the complexities of the series and I would recommend them to any one remotely interested in Romanian Royal Orders.

Paul

 

I agree that the system appears quite complex at first sight, but it has an underlying logic. Please see below the four variants of the Order of the Star of Romania in use during WWII, from left to right: civilian Knight's Cross, military Knight's Cross (peacetime insignia with swords above the cross), wartime Knight's Cross (swords through the centre and yellow edges on the ribbon - non-'battlefield" awards), wartime Knight's Cross on Military Virtue ribbon (for 'battlefield' awards).

OSR_mod_II.thumb.jpg.e64196b07700904d449

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I thank you both for your replies.

I see it is quite complex but the photos above really help my understanding of this Order.

Kind regards
Pierce

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Thank you so much for the photos a most useful illustration.

Paul

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... four variants of the Order of the Star of Romania in use during WWII...

...military Knight's Cross (peacetime insignia with swords above the cross)...

Thank you for the illustration, but Isn't that a contradiction - peacetime award during WWII?

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Thank you for the illustration, but Isn't that a contradiction - peacetime award during WWII?

There is no contradiction. A member of the diplomatic mission of a country was awarded the 'regular' order even in wartime. Therefore, a military attaché could get the corresponding insignia named 'peacetime military insignia'One could get the 'wartime' insignia if he/she was involved in military operations.

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On Huesken there is an award certificate for Fregattenkapitän (Capitan Comandor in Romanian - for some reason the description is for Korvettenkapitän - Locotenent Comandor in Romanian) Kurt Besthorn who received in September 1941 the Commander's cross of the order of the Crown of Romania with peacetime military insignia.

44001.thumb.jpg.0807c029d0d2f0d371a8849e

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ID: 15   Posted

Mine has this Ribbon, I do not know its meaning.

WP_20170529_017.thumb.jpg.c6fb2c5706b7c269608c22bf296b92b6.jpg

WP_20170529_018.thumb.jpg.cae5e928d03f5f6bb78de2b82af7fbad.jpg

Best regards

Lambert

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ID: 16   Posted

This is the pre-1932 ribbon but with a later cross.

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ID: 17   Posted

For bravery ? Thank P.F. :)

Lambert

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ID: 18   Posted

22 hours ago, lambert said:

For bravery ? Thank P.F. :)

Lambert

No this is not the War Ribbon.

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ID: 19   Posted

3 minutes ago, P.F. said:

No this is not the War Ribbon.

Thank you very much!

:cheers:

Lambert

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ID: 20   Posted

23 hours ago, lambert said:

For bravery ? Thank P.F. :)

Lambert

You have a type II wartime Knight's Cross with a type I ribbon. The photos appear to show different colours of the cross and the crown, possibly indicating disparate pieces.

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ID: 21   Posted

On 30/05/2017 at 17:36, Carol I said:

You have a type II wartime Knight's Cross with a type I ribbon. The photos appear to show different colours of the cross and the crown, possibly indicating disparate pieces.

Sorry, the photo is bad. But I'll explain. The crown and the cross are of the same golden color. I also have another identical one in Silver.

Cheers

Lambert

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Hello everyone.

I would like opinions on this Order of the Star of Romania (Model 1877-1932) 

WP_20170613_037.thumb.jpg.7aa887aaf2b718017f4d06c658d4466c.jpg

WP_20170613_038.thumb.jpg.c40dbb3e0391680a03d67c1f15b6fa50.jpg

WP_20170613_039.thumb.jpg.cf352e575b28f1002b9ad58dd298b625.jpg

WP_20170613_046.thumb.jpg.c31e50db97eefe736e1fd7d8445c7e45.jpg

WP_20170613_047.thumb.jpg.643908ce4759f926cd8adfb4cdd9fafd.jpg

WP_20170613_052.thumb.jpg.600aa2df45a27227a85f62f20be63c9c.jpg

WP_20170613_053.thumb.jpg.6004e2a226bbc7d53c04cc577c0e5b31.jpg

WP_20170613_055.thumb.jpg.09a0cd46cef7c3e2929074d960e9fff5.jpg

WP_20170613_056.thumb.jpg.5f473430556b8f92f02e966e2382616c.jpg

Thank you in advance.

Lambert

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ID: 23   Posted (edited)

Nice award, Type 1, civil division.

Looks fine to me.

Edited by new world

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18 hours ago, new world said:

Nice award, Type 1, civil division.

Looks fine to me.

thank you
Well, I was not sure about it .. I thought she might have more delicate details. I have missed the "details" under the smooth enamel without the characteristic geometric shapes of " diamond ". I'll try to make better and more detailed photos.

Some manufacturer of lower quality?

Thank

Lambert

 

 

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23 hours ago, new world said:

Nice award, Type 1, civil division.

Looks fine to me.

I have seen several badges with these features. They appear to have poorer quality in comparison to other badges, which might indicate lower quality WWI or post-war production, but this is just my feeling as I know of no research to prove this.

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