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Chris Boonzaier

Bavarian Leib Regiment Assoc. Flag... top of my collection

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I will let the pictures do the talking.... 1.25 m across.... the pole 3.3m with pole top......

I don't think I can ever top thisl1.thumb.jpg.125b35020d5b2f54be89b04db1dl2.thumb.jpg.7ff07145088847ff3f7cc5353b7l3.thumb.jpg.09f27f0f30abc0c96e82034c12bl20.thumb.jpg.6ea606255fd47659de8f96266bl21.thumb.jpg.cfc9bbfb0a7c51edd87a4f0c11l22.thumb.jpg.32d9a67298ef36045ce700509dl23.thumb.jpg.9b3e8cab01ad3b80299ff070bfl24.thumb.jpg.7a2e1179ddc6c209320fae3479l25.thumb.jpg.e2d9186010bc2e509cd5495766 top this.....

The pole....

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Chris:

Thank you for showing this. It cannot be topped in my opinion. And all the small plates added over time commemorating events. Quite a piece.

Bernhard H. Holst

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Hi,

 

it was indeed the find of a lifetime.... I have rarely seem one of these for sale.... and most have been Kriegerverein flags for towns, but not for specific Regiments.... so not really of intrest to me.... then, for 99% of regiments I would not really be THAT interested.... There are maybe 2-3 Regiments or battalions that would interest me enough.... and this is one of them.... On top of that there is the pole and all that goes with it.... So the cances of seeing a flag, and it being the right Regiment, And having its pole etc are probbably less than 1%....

A nice cold canadian winter will kill the moth eggs if there are any....

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Holy crap Chris! This is amazing.  It is surely one of a kind- museum worthy item!  

It looks like it is starting to get fragile.  How are you going to stabilize it?

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Hi,

the first step will be to freeze it to kill moth eggs, then between 2 sheets of plexiglass.

 

The 1914 History of the regiment has the following on the association, ... I am guessing a lot of 1870 vets were in it in 1914...

Comrades! When your service is over and you return to civilian life you will often think back on the times when you had the honor to serve in his Majesty’s Infanterie-Leib-Regiment. The spirit that carried you through your service should and will continue to live in every real “Leiber”, the spirit of the true soldier who understands the command “Forward! To the enemy, cost what it may”. The spirit of duty towards our Royal Family, his Majesty King Ludwig III.

Comrades! There is an institution where this warrior spirit lives on. On the 24th of August 1892 the “Vereinigung ehemaliger Angehöriger des k.b. Infanterie-Leib-Regiments” * was created in München. We are proud to have created the first Regimental association to be founded in Germany. The objective is to continue the comradeship after the soldier returns to civilian life, and to nurture the love and loyalty the Leiber has for our ruling house. Membership also has a material advantage as when a member dies the family receive a onetime payment from the association death fund.

His Royal Highness Prinz Arnulf accepted the role as Patron of the association and has a continuing active interest. His Royal Highness the Crown Prince has extended his Patronage to all branches of the Leiberverein.

Today we are no longer a single association. Every city, every town in Bavaria has a Leiberverein. They are all joined through a central committee in München.

Comrades! It is the honor bound duty of every man who ever wore the uniform of his Majesties Leib-Regiment to prove his loyalty to the unit by joining his comrades in his local Leibervereinigung. There you will find the true friendship that will support you as you venture forth in life. There you can refresh yourself and relax in contemplative hours. You will be forever connected to the regiment. When the day comes that your son volunteers to join our ranks, to serve the King, under arms in the same regiment as his father, then we would like to greet him as the son of a beloved old Leiber comrade.

*(The Association of former members of the Bavarian Infanterie Leib Regiment)

Verein-Association

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Phantastic, Chris! Phanatstic!

Photo 7 shows the bavarian coat-of-arm from 1835-1923. (attachement #1) So they used the coat-of-arm of the war-time!

For the coat-of-arm from 1923-1950 see attachement #2

The "Fish" is the coat-of-arm of Kaiserslautern and the "Monk" is the "Stadtwappen" (coat-of-arm of the city) of München (Munich). The oldest name of München is Munich (that cames from Mönch = engl. monk). Please be not confused with the attached picture #3.

Coat-of-arm of Kaiserslautern attachement #4

Bayern-1835.png

Bayern-1923.png

monk-show.jpg

265px-Kaiserslautern-Stadtwappen.svg.png

Edited by The Prussian

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2 minutes ago, The Prussian said:

Phantastic, Chris! Phanatstic!

Photo 7 shows the bavarian coat-of-arm from 1835-1923. (attachement #1) So they used the coat-of-arm of the war-time!

For the coat-of-arm from 1923-1950 see attachement #2

The "Fish" is the coat-of-arm of Kaiserslautern and the "Monk" is the "Stadtwappen" (coat-of-arm of the city) of München (Munich). The oldest name of München is Munich (that cames from Mönch = engl. monk). Please be not confused with the attached picture #3

 

Hi,

According to the earliest Badge on the flagpole, they recieved the Flag from the Krieger Verein in Morlautern in 1913... so it was "in there" just before the war, the last badge being the 1936 Saarland one. I assume the flag went into Hibernation as it was not souvenierd by an allied soldier ;-)

So it had the last of the 1870 veterans, then all the WW1 Vets up into the 1930s.

I wonder if there was a Leib Regt association magazine?

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Hello,

was this flag for two units?

I read B 23. Inf Leib Regt,

The 23th Infanterieregiment with the hometown Landau and the ILR with hometown Munich.
The first bataillon of the 8. Reserve Infanterie Regiment was in Kaiserslautern.
I think it was a postwar veterans association foundet in Kaiserslautern for members of the ILR and the 23. IR.

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Hi,

It is a bad angle, but its "K. B. Inft. Leib Regts." , The "B" is pretty fancy and almost looks like a "23"

 

There was a Leiber Verein Dach organisation, all Leiber Vereine grouped under the Crownprinz, so no mixing and matching ;-)

 

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Thanks for the clarification, which of course makes sense

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On 11/19/2015, 10:37:54, Chris Boonzaier said:

"the first step will be to freeze it to kill moth eggs, then between 2 sheets of plexiglass."

I suggest using UV glass rather than plexiglass, and displaying it flat with a mirror underneath so you can see both sides. Here's why:

First, plexiglass is a petroleum based material that potentially can transfer oils to the surface of whatever it comes in contact with over time. Plexiglass is lighter than museum-grade glass, and easier to move around, but for a permanent display that won't result in damage, a glass sandwich mounted flat rather than horizontal is the best way to go.

While on the subject of chemical reactions, different materials used in the construction of stuff we collect, can cause problems. Leather and brass contact can cause verdigris formation, because of the acids used in tanning leather. Based on the photos, some of the material used for the standard looks woolen, and there may be silk used as well. Wool can be kept from moths, but silk deteriorates at a constant rate that you can't do anything about, and how it's stored or displayed can affect the aging of the material. The best way to store or display almost any cloth material, is not put it on a dummy torso for a long time, because the material will start forming creases that are difficult to remove. Your idea of putting the flag in a sandwich is a good one, but again, think about the museum-level approach to using quality glass instead of plexiglass, finding one spot for it, then leaving it there for the "duration."

Placing it flat, rather than upright also takes weight of the fabric and helps keep gravity and time from breaking fibres, and the start of tears and breaks.

You definitely want to use UV protection to protect the colors and prevent fading.

One last word of advice, is to think about climate control for the entire collection, that will keep temperature, humidity, and exposure to light, relatively constant.

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just my 2 cents worth re flag mounting I have a number of Japanese flags that I have framed if you only want one side displayed use an acid free backing as to glass as les recommends use what they call museum quality glass this is uv reflective and the latest version is so good that you really have to look twice to see the glass is actually there  it is really amazing expensive yes but well worth it

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Hi Les, Mickey,

good suggestions and I will take that into account in the long term. short term however, reality bites.

At the moment I have gone the plexiglass route. I bought high grade plexiglas made in Darmstadt. The problems with displaying became apparent right away. The frame is 1.40m by 1.40m.  Which is even bigger in reality than it sounds. To stiffen it i have wooden frames on both sides... I would say it looks perfect for display... But where?

when the wife was out yesterday i removed a painting in the living room and moved some furniture... Hung it up.... Them she came home...

now the frame stands against the Minenwerfer in the study, and the wife and I are not speaking to each other. if I had used glass from the get go it would probably have been broken by now with the moving. Maybe in 5 years time I will have more space and can go the glass route... But until then the whole thing will probably have to stay mobile.... 

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For the time being this is as goos as it gets.... you can see the size problems from the Gew88... its pretty big.

The seller had it mailed to a wall for the last 20 years, apparently he picked it up from a guy who bought it 25 years ago from someone who was trooping it in a Fasching Parade.... so my effort is a step up in conservation.

One day I hope to do the flat on the ground behind glass variation....s1.thumb.jpg.9c8f4b3ea113ceecd49a498ecd3s2.thumb.jpg.f6a95a07245812579ae2aaf256as3.thumb.jpg.3cdfd14c430961747c490a760ba

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Wow Chris, that is exceptional!!  I'm late to the party, but let me congratulate you!!

  Now my dumb question, were these awarded or bought?  You state the flag was presented by "the Krieger Verein in Morlautern in 1913"; did every unit get a flag? Were these regional items or was this a gift to a more elite unit?

 

  Wonderful flag!

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Hi,

The Leib Regt was the first one to have a regimental associaton. Most regiments were from a single region, but the Leib regiment recruited all over bavaria and as a result had a number of branches in the Verein. From what i understand, they then raised funds and purchased them. I am not sure of the details.

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Damn... I just missed this....

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-1-Wk-Soldat-Pickelhaube-Ringkragen-Fahnentraeger-Kettenhund-Orden-LEIB-RGT-/391424361079?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEDWX%3AIT&nma=true&si=uvb3zyEzXst3cJQRyGOheVDcmrc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

It seems to be the Leib regt Assoc in another city. Looking at this I see the crown was removed from my flag top, it was neatly cut and filed off... maybe in the 3rd Reich period?

 

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6 hours ago, Fritz die Spinne said:

Man o man, you stepped in it with this, Chris. Congrats!

Indeed.... I had to hold my breath as I unpackaged it :-)

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19 hours ago, Chris Boonzaier said:

Indeed.... I had to hold my breath as I unpackaged it :-)

You know it is all downhill from here, right? ;P 

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