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5685c9e0c4a0a_GMSAinsignias.JPG.747159d6

My father was one of a four-man mine-sweeper. The photo I have of him doesn't show his

insignia, but the other three are as shown here. Can someone explain the meanings of

the symbols and what the duties of the "4th man" may have been? He's passed away now

and didn't want to speak of the war.

 

Thanks,

Marion

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Marion,

I am not sure what the duties of the "4th man" would have been on a GM/SA mine sweeper but it sounds like an interesting research project for me.  I will see if I can find out.  From memory, the lightning bolt would have been for electronics, the star for seaman, and the flags for communicator.  Those may not be the exact titles but will give you an idea of the approximate duties.  I've done a lot of research in this area and I'll post a better answer later in the day.

Regards,

Gordon

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Marion,

I have been looking for someone who served in the GM/SA for some time.  If you have any pictures or any info about your father's service in the GM/SA I would be very grateful if you would share things with me.  If you would like more information, general or specific, from my archives please just ask

Regards,

Gordon

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That's perfect, Gordon! THANKS!

 

My father did have some navigation books that he saved, so it is

possible that he was a Steuermann. I have little to go on.

 

Marion

 

 

 

On 1/1/2016 at 09:43, Gordon Craig said:

Marion,

Here is a better explanation than my previous post re the ensignia.

Regards,

Gordon

 

org09.gif

 

Sorry I didn't post this while he was alive. The image that I posted is cropped from

one that he is in. I don't know who the three are that had the shoulder insignias,

so I don't feel comfortable posting their faces. As I said, he didn't talk about his

service, so I don't think I can help much.

 

Cheers,

Marion

 

 

23 hours ago, Gordon Craig said:

Marion,

I have been looking for someone who served in the GM/SA for some time.  If you have any pictures or any info about your father's service in the GM/SA I would be very grateful if you would share things with me.  If you would like more information, general or specific, from my archives please just ask

Regards,

Gordon

 

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Hi amrion,

after the capizulation the Allied forced the germans to sweep the waters and teh seeways.

So the German Kriegsmarine mine sweepers did the same they did before, only under a new command now.

So I think the insignias are the same of the Kriegsmarine and teh GMSA

http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/i/2dwr-b2.jpg

The GMSA (German Mine Sweeping Admninistration) was endes in December 1947 bacause of pressure from Russia. They feared a remilitarisation of Germany uhidden under the Amreican.

 

Michael

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Hello Chris.

Iron Crosses and also Wound Badges were awarded in Norway for mine clearing and suffered wounds through that after the capitulation. This practice was against prevailing orders and such from the Doenitz government. German forces in Norway remained under an organized German command for some time.

I have a German Cross i.G. group to mine sweeper captain who continued that job after May 1945. Sadly not many documents regarding that are included. I do remember seeing members of that service on shore ( of course) who in my recollection were quite smart in appearance.

Bernhard H. Holst

BTW: Lapland Shield was also awarded ( without the Swastika ) BHH

 

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Chris and Bernhard,

Interesting comments about the mine clearing group in Norway.  In my research of the GM/SA I have never come across any reference to the GM/SA having a group in Norway.  No doubt ex members of the Kriegsmarine would have been employed in mine clearing in Norway but Bernhard mentions that they were under German control.   The GM/SA was under British control and when it was disbanded some of these men joined the U.S. Navy's Labour Service Unit (B) at Cuxhaven or the British civilian mine sweeping organization.  Here is an article I did on the GM/SA several years ago on the BRD Sub-forum on the WAF.  I have gathered a lot more information on the GM/SA since then but have never done a Part 2.  Perhaps it is time?  I also did an article on the Klost Fast Patrol Group but I haven't looked for it yet.

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=634590&highlight=GM%2FSA 

I would be very interested in hearing more about the mine clearing organization in Norway that was under German command.

Regards,

Gordon

 

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11 hours ago, Gordon Craig said:

Chris and Bernhard,

Interesting comments about the mine clearing group in Norway.  In my research of the GM/SA I have never come across any reference to the GM/SA having a group in Norway.  No doubt ex members of the Kriegsmarine would have been employed in mine clearing in Norway but Bernhard mentions that they were under German control.   The GM/SA was under British control and when it was disbanded some of these men joined the U.S. Navy's Labour Service Unit (B) at Cuxhaven or the British civilian mine sweeping organization.  Here is an article I did on the GM/SA several years ago on the BRD Sub-forum on the WAF.  I have gathered a lot more information on the GM/SA since then but have never done a Part 2.  Perhaps it is time?  I also did an article on the Klost Fast Patrol Group but I haven't looked for it yet.

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=634590&highlight=GM%2FSA 

I would be very interested in hearing more about the mine clearing organization in Norway that was under German command.

Regards,

Gordon

 

Hello Gordon.

I should have been more precise in my comments about German Forces stationed in Norway following the German capitulation in 1945.

The Iron Cross etc awards post capitulation I have come across were for army personnel engaged in mine clearing on land. Most likely their own mine fields installed to protect coastal and other defense installations. I have no information under whose command German navy minesweepers operated in Norwegian waters post capitulation. However  British and Norwegian Forces supervised the internment so that any sea water mine clearing operations very likely would have been under British control ( having already a large mine sweeping organization in place ).

The awards grouping ,  Oblt.z.S. Fock I referred to was stationed in the greater Bremen area post-war and most likely sweeping in the German Bight and North Sea areas. His award was based on wartime actions in the Baltic Sea.

I hope I did not muddy up the water even more...

Bernhard H. Holst

Edited by Bernhard H.Holst

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Bernhard,

Thanks for your additional comments.  It is interesting to hear that German awards were presented after the war to what I presume were POWs?  A new field of research for me.

Regards,

Gordon

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Hello again,

after some years of Absence ist nice to be back again.

My father served in the GMSA. He was a OLtzS and served as first watch officer on the Tender "Jagd" out of Cuxhaven until 1947. I will try to post some Pictures.

regards

JuergenIMG_1450.JPGIMG_1446.JPGIMG_1449.JPGIMG_1447.JPG

it is interesting to note, that the officers continued to wear their KM Uniform , without the insignia on the cap and on the jacket.

regards

Juergen

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