KS98 Officers and private purchase bayonets and knives

[Chris Boonzaier]

I was happy to add a third one to the set... Top one is a WW1 period Eichhorn, then a WW1 period WKC smaller bayonet and then the combat knife... Strangely enough the top one does not fit on a rifle.... The oil hole (or whatever its called, is missing on the top one, and is just cosmetic in the grips of the smaller one...

[piekenier]

That horn grip combat knife is really neat nice and complete with its scabbard and leather clip .All looks original .Is the metal aluminium?

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

It is steel.

Here they are with the regular KS98s

 

[Trajan]

Many of the 'dress' Seitengewehr did not fit onto rifles - some don't have mortice slots, or mortice slots that are too short or narrow, or non-functioning press-studs and catch systems. What sort is the top example of yours? If it has a mortice slot, does it have a piece of coloured felt in it?

 

The second is a very nice example of the short KS made as a 'dress' weapon. There is an excellent example of one of these with an applied (metal) monogram of Wilhem II on the grip illustrated in Nolle and Carter, Deutsche Seitengewehre und Bajonette, no. 221 on p.93, and I know of others - a friend in the UK has one. I have seen a photograph of one of the Central European minor princes or somebody like that who is wearing one of these - but can't remember where right now!

Trajan

[Jeff Noll]

I have a serious sickness for these!!!! 

[Daron]

Hi there - I'm new to this site and would appreciate any help identifying this item - I think it is a KS98 sawback maybe private purchase ? I can send more pics if required - thanks in advance.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi Daron,

 

I think you have a winner. Can you show the stamps on it, in the side of the blade and on the back, between the saw and the hilt.

 

Best

Chris

[Daron]

Will do - where are you located ? I'm inJHB

Regards 

Daron

Do you have Whattsap ? I can send pics that way

It's also a numbers matching scabbard and blade - crown W07 

[Daron]

Apologies Chris - I thought I was talking to Piekenier - my fault - I will take some close ups of the markings and send them through 

 

Regards

 

Daron

Here's one - I'll send more

[Daron]

[Chris Boonzaier]

Fantastic,

You have a really nice gem there!!

I would buy it in a second if I saw it at a show.

 

best

Chris

[ccj]

I have one with monogram 

[piekenier]

Daron it is a 1907 KS 98 mauser bayonet. There should stamped numbers on the crossgaurd and scabbard throat.Please post photos of that side .

Chris the KS98 is not an officers bayonet , but worn by other ranks and NCO's ,nor a private purchase .I do know that you know that .It is just the heading of the post that is a bit misleading .

Thank you so much for sharing photos of your blades.

[Chris Boonzaier]

31 minutes ago, piekenier said:

 

Chris the KS98 is not an officers bayonet , but worn by other ranks and NCO's ,nor a private purchase .I do know that you know that .It is just the heading of the post that is a bit misleading .

 

Hi,

indeed you are right, I was intending to just show the ones bases on the issue bayonet that  officers purchased when they replaces swords but it meandered into the issue ones as well, but that is ok, the more the merrier :-)

[piekenier]

Cheers Chris

[Daron]

Hi there - here's the picture of the throat - the same number appears on the cross guard - can you tell me what it is if not an officers or private purchase ? 

Thanks again

 

Regards

 

Daron

Also - what is the deal with the missing hole/slot in the grips that i see on the other KS98's ?

Regards

 

Daron

[piekenier]

Daron this KS98 was not a private purchase .The numbering indicates an issue number ,weapon number, of a regimentally issued weapon.The scabbard was never nickel but black and the nickle finish was obviously done later .The numbering is not the type seen on bayonets carried in the German colonies ,as they have alphabetic letter ahead of the number ( KS or DOA etc).I am puzzled by the numbering as even regimental numbers in Germany have a combination  of letters and numbers in some form like 1.E.435 .

[Daron]

Hi 

So a strange puzzle to be solved 

Thank you for your help

 

Regards

Daron

[Chris Boonzaier]

Is there anything more on the crossguard? Like a KS?

[Daron]

Hi Chris

As far as I can see just the number 484 - however there might be something under the plating on the scabbard - I'm loath to peel it off but I'll take off a little bit to satisfy my curiosity - as Piekenier said - the plating is not original - so what harm could that do ? 

Regards

Daron

[Chris Boonzaier]

I am going to go out on a limb kere and say that no matter what the stamp is, it is very probably still Schutztruppe.

My reasoning is, these bayonets are scarce.  Schtztruppe bayonets used to be easy to find in South Africa. If a KS98 is found in South Africa it is way more likely to be from GSWA than from the European theater, and the numbering is also not one used by a Europe based Unit...

So taking into account that the numbering is not really usual for GSWA OR Europe... but that the chances of finding one of these in South Africa to a colonial unit are waaay bigger than finding one to a Europe based unit... I think (without proof) that it is pretty likely to be GSWA with some kind of unusual numbering (Maybe early before they used the KS prefix?

[Daron]

Hi Chris

Very interesting ! and more confusing ! 

Any idea why the grips don't have the slot in them near the guard ? I've seen them on other ks's ?

By the way I've just found an HJ knife and Luftwaffe 2nd pattern dirk - these are from my dad who recently passed away.

 

Regards

Daron

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi Daron,

usually they have the slot, I cannot make it out on your photo if it is lacking?

Best

Chris

[piekenier]

All the one's I have seen so far have the slot in the grip plate !It is however a 1907 marked blade stamped ERFURT,and I agree that it is very likely a Schutztruppe piece from one of the African colonies ,probably German South West Africa .The guy that stamped the numbers just went home before he stamped the letters KS  .Daron you have not posted a photo of the lettering on the crossgaurd?.

[Jeff Noll]

All, The kSg98 was designated as a "Seitengewehr für Maschinengewehr Schützen".  They were introduced in 1901 to coincide with the first five Machinengewehr-Abteilung (GMGA Nr.1 and MGA Nrs.1-4).  They were intended for "prestige"  units as they followed the pattern of the earlier Hirschfänger M71's distinctive eagle head pommel.  The issue bayonets were produced by ERFURT, AMBERG, V.C.SCHILLING, C.G.HAENAL P.D.LÜNESCHLOSS and E&F HÖSTER.  The last issue bayonets were made in 1915 (by ERFURT and E&F HÖSTER).  Besides Maschinengewehr personnel, they were formally authorized for Colonial Troops, Airmen, Engineers, Communication, and Medical Personal. 

As noted earlier, private purchase versions of the kS98 and kSg98 were very popular with officers after 1916 when the wearing of swords was discontinued.  These bayonets were made in many configurations and their variety seem to be limited only by the price the purchaser was willing to pay.  They were also produced with black hilt fittings (black enamel or rust blueing) ostensibly for wear in the field.  The most desirable of the lot was the model which actually had a carved eagle head hilt with red jeweled eyes, a cyphered grip and with an etched blade. 

WRT the nickeled issue bayonet posted by DARON.  In my opinion one cannot deduce any Colonial Troop use without the presence of any Regimental Markings related to Colonial Troops.  These would be K.S. (most prolific), P.T.K., P.T., S.K., Sch.K., or Sch.D.O.A.. 

Edited December 13, 2016 by Jeff Noll