dedehansen Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 (edited) Hi Gents, I got a German medal bar which contains a golden Royal Medal of Recompense King Frederik VIII. My question is, do there exist rolls with the names from German recipients? My hope is, that it is possible to identify the former owner with the help from forum members. Eyery help appreciated. Kind regards Andreas Edited September 10, 2016 by dedehansen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larsb001 Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Andreas, HUGE mistake, it's a Frederik VIII But check your message folder! Regards, Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egorka Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 It is a gold medal without crown. 99 awards in 6 years. So the potential list is bot that long. But probably there were several German awardees, so without extra information it cannot be identified. Hpw does the reverse look like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedehansen Posted September 10, 2016 Author Share Posted September 10, 2016 16 hours ago, larsb001 said: Andreas, HUGE mistake, it's a Frederik VIII But check your message folder! Regards, Lars Hej and thanks for your advice, I´ve corrected my mistake, sorry for the confusion. I´ll send you a message. Kind regards from Rendsborg, after Kjöbenhavn next in size fortress i Kongeriget Danmark Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedehansen Posted September 11, 2016 Author Share Posted September 11, 2016 On 10.9.2016 at 02:38, Egorka said: It is a gold medal without crown. 99 awards in 6 years. So the potential list is bot that long. But probably there were several German awardees, so without extra information it cannot be identified. Hpw does the reverse look like? Hi Egorka, thanks for the information with the 99 awards. If I had the names from the German awardees, I could crosscheck the names with other german rolls from the medals on the bar. The reverse of the medal bears a wreath of oak leaves, unfortunately without an engraving of the recipients name. Kind regards Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kvart Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 Do you have a picture of the whole group? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedehansen Posted September 12, 2016 Author Share Posted September 12, 2016 On 10.9.2016 at 02:38, Egorka said: It is a gold medal without crown. 99 awards in 6 years. So the potential list is bot that long. But probably there were several German awardees, so without extra information it cannot be identified. Hpw does the reverse look like? Hej Egorka, it seems that you have the rolls, could you please crosscheck the list?! My research resulted in 23 German individuals including two persons from the court of Hertugen af Cumberland. Kind regards Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egorka Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, dedehansen said: Hej Egorka, it seems that you have the rolls, could you please crosscheck the list?! My research resulted in 23 German individuals including two persons from the court of Hertugen af Cumberland. Kind regards Andreas Hello Andreas. I don't have the rolls. I might have an idea where to look them up in the archive or library. But this may take some time and I am curently top busy at work. Edited September 12, 2016 by Egorka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedehansen Posted September 12, 2016 Author Share Posted September 12, 2016 Hej Egorka, this is not necessary, but thank you for your offering. I´ve crosschecked it twice, same result every time. Kind regards Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egorka Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 So, Andreas, you know the name already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedehansen Posted September 12, 2016 Author Share Posted September 12, 2016 5 minutes ago, Egorka said: So, Andreas, you know the name already? Yes, but I wasn´t sure if I analysed it complete and correct, but now I´m sure that I have all Germans with BM1. Thanks a lot Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Dane Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 In his book "En allerhøjeste Paaskønnelse", Lars Stevnsborg lists recipients 1865-1912. I believe the list was created by meticulously going through the official sources (royal decrees etc.) as no official list exist. So there may still be small inaccuracies in his list. Like most court medals this medal was often part of the King's 'luggage' and to be handed out at his discretion to whomever he felt deserved it. So many times the award was not documented. If you send me the list of potential German recipients, I can cross-check. That's easier for me than going through the list which is ordered chronologically. /Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egorka Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 Michael, don't you think the list should be in the "Kongelig Dansk Hof- og Statskalender"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Dane Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 Of course I do, but since the abolishment of absolutism, handing out court medals without consent from the government was one of the few royal prerogatives. Hence no official listing /Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egorka Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 (edited) OK, OK. I understood that it was mainly Christian IX who was known to hand out these medals liberally without much paperwork. Or paperwork that was supposed to be done later, which often never happen properly. But the later Dansh monarchs introduced more order into this process. So I was hopping that the Frederik IIX pulled himself together and streamlined the process. Though I am afraid it actually happened much later. So THAT is why I was thinking to be able to find the list in the "Kongelig Dansk Hof- og Statskalender". Edited September 12, 2016 by Egorka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Dane Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 (edited) I think you're right that later they had more documentation (don't know exactly from when), so yes, I agree - it should have become part of the Statskalender at that point. /Michael These are the ones I can find that received the Gold medal in the period and with a direct mentioning of belonging to the court of the Duke of Cumberland: - Riekenberg - Augermann Any of those names on your list? /Michael OK, I', not sure why my edit of my last post merged it with my previous post, but anyway... Edited September 12, 2016 by Great Dane typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egorka Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) Just one correction. This medal is not in god. I think I wad deceived by yellowish glow on the photo. It is a silver medal without crown. The list should be much longer than 99. But in the Royal Calender, there are almost no foreign names (except one Norwegian) for 1906-1912 period. Just been to the library. If you trust, that this group is not artifitially made, then an option could be, that this medal was given without suspension piece, i.e. without right to bear. But the owner ordered privatly the suspention to be added. I say so, brcause the Danish Royal Calender only mentions medals with bearing permission (in that period anyway). Maybe it is time you show us the whole group. Don't be shy! Edited September 13, 2016 by Egorka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedehansen Posted September 13, 2016 Author Share Posted September 13, 2016 It is the bar from a german lackey, the photo was taken by daylight, and definite not silver. Kind regards Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egorka Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 2 hours ago, dedehansen said: It is the bar from a german lackey, the photo was taken by daylight, and definite not silver. Kind regards Andreas If you are sure it is gold, then it must be 8 carat model. The Frederik IIX gold medal wad struk in 24 carat gold in 1906-1909. And 1909 to 1912 in 8 carat. The later must see whiter. I think yours is 8 carat then. About the recipient list, let's see what Michael has to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Dane Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Actually, when I first looked at the photo in post #1 it looked like silver gilt to me, but I blamed it on the lighting, because it definitely shouldn't be. As Egorka says, it was struck in 8 and 23 (not 24) karat solid gold. I can verify from personal experience that both types look the same to the naked eye (same deep yellow golden color). The only difference is the weight, with the 8K version weighing about half of the 23K version. The ONLY specimens of this medal in silver gilt are the copies. If the medal on the bar is silver gilt, we can't rule out that someone swapped it with a copy at some point in its life. This is the 23K version with crown (and as I mentioned, the 8K version looks the same): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egorka Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 (edited) Hej Michael, Here is the scan from the Royal and State-calendar. But I see almost exclussivly danes. Am I looking at a wrong medal? Edited September 26, 2016 by Egorka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedehansen Posted September 26, 2016 Author Share Posted September 26, 2016 Hi Egorka, I suppose that you´re wrong, you are looking for this medal: Fortjenstmedaljen http://www.omsd.dk/RibbonGuide/da/Ribbons1_da.aspx I´m looking for this one: Den kgl. Belønningsmedalje, BM1 http://www.omsd.dk/RibbonGuide/da/Ribbons1_da.aspx But I think with the friendly help from this forum and a Dutch medal collector we have found the former recipient, it should be Traugott Thomel kgl. preussisk portier i Berlin. But I have further homework to do, until now five from nine medals could be assigned to him. Thanks a lot Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Dane Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 Yes Egorka, Andreas is right. This is the list of "Fortjenstmedaljen" ("Medal of Merit"). The "Royal Medal of Recompense" ("Belønningsmedaljen") were never listed and not only that - it will not appear in the list of abbreviations appended after a name. Andreas, I believe you're on the right track. I was a bit thrown off by the alleged link to the Duke of Cumberland. /Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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